On Dec 19, 2012, at 6:42 AM, Matthew West wrote: (01)
> Dear Pat,
>
> That depends on how you define individual (of course). (02)
I had thought that there was a starting point here in which the force of being
an individual was that one does not have instances or exemplars (or 'members'),
so I have been using this idea for making intuitive judgements of plausibility,
rather than any formal definition. This has nothing at all to do with being in
space and time. (03)
>
>>>>> MW: Someone mentioned that an individual is something that does not
>> have members (in the sense of a set having members) and that is close
>> to what I would mean, but that would make the null set an individual,
>> so it is not quite adequate. My definition of individual is something
>> that exists in space and time. I am not a set (or class or type or kind
>> or sort etc) nor is my car or this email. Nor is Sherlock Holmes to
>> give a more difficult example. All these things can be placed in space
>> and time (even if it is imaginary space and time) . On the other hand,
>> sets/classes/types are generally considered to exist outside space and
>> time.
>>>>
>>>> I understand that a 'main dichotomy' between an individual and a
>> set/class/type is - existence in space and time (rather than having or
>> not having members).
>>
>> That surely will not work. The natural number five is an individual,
>> but does not exist in space and time, even imaginary space and time.
>> Does Moby Dick, the work, exist in space and time? (Where?) Some people
>> think that sets exist in time. There is hardly any position on these
>> debates that has not been held and defended by someone.
>
> MW: I agree that the natural number five is not a set, and that it is also
> not a spatio-temporal extent, but that would not make it an individual, as I
> would define it, but an abstract object. (04)
Well, frankly, just having a "definition" plucked out of the air isn't very
interesting. WHY do you want to define "individual" in this way? Is this
definition supposed to be an exegesis of some idea of individuality that has
some kind of intellectual pedigree, or do you have some other motivation for
it? I can't see any reason why an abstract object should not be called an
individual. If five isn't a set and has no instances but isnt an individual,
what (kind of thing) is it? And what about things that (plausibly) exist in
time but not in space, like Moby Dick? Are they half-individuals, by your
lights? (05)
Pat (06)
> But I will agree that there is a
> problem at this level of abstraction about what words to use for what
> things, and it is obviously easy for this to lead to confusion.
>
> Regards
>
> Matthew West
> Information Junction
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