>Thanks for your feedback Krzysztof
>
>> Frankly speaking I am having a hard time making sense out of wik.me. For
>instance,
>> I typed in Germany and got about 30 results in the 'Germany may include'
>list. Most
>> of them were about German soccer teams, heavy metal bands, or the city
>Ogden in Utah.
> (01)
I got a similar first impression trying something very simple and close to many
people on this forum http://search.wik.me/search.htm?words=Ontology (02)
I am not sure what to make of it. Third in order on the list after two
definitions of Ontology is Friedrich Nietzsche, followed by other philosophers
with Parmenides appearing only in the middle. Aristotle, however, is not listed
at all. (03)
It seems to be results of some heuristic applied on top of regular keyword
search. If there is some hidden structure, then what purpose does it serve?
For example, David Wood appears not long after Parmenides, but the link leads
to the professor of philosophy at Vanderbilt University. Why was he singled out
along with UMBEL above and LOOM below? Besides, the relevant David Wood
I know of is the author of recent book on Semantic Web and has joined Talis as
VP of technology not long ago. (04)
>The connection to Ogden is pretty tenuous, I'll admit and it's an example of
>a dbPedia
>triple that shouldn't have made it past the filter. I might add that more
>than half
>of DBPedia's triples were dumped because of their quality.
>
>This is what you get when you ask a machine to read human language. But
>wik.me *does*
>give you the power to change these errors - which I've just done on the
>Ogden page with the
>comment "@bot, this is not connected to Germany."
> (05)
I can't change what I don't understand. If it is the error, it is one massive
error that is better discarded then fixed. (06)
>> From my perspective this list does not follow any order nor does it
>contain relevant
>> links about Germany in general (leaving the first link aside).
>
>I guess you're not a heavy metal fan. Some of us are ;-). Seriously though
>- the keyword
>search list is ranked by popularity. The site wik.me is a *discovery* tool,
>not an exercise in
>presenting structure.
> (07)
What exactly is being discovered? (08)
>> After following the first link from the 'Germany may include' list, I get
>a single sentence
>> definition of Germany and then a category called 'Contains'. This category
>seems to be spatial
>> containment at first but it is not. I lists some German cities, some
>German states, the Oktoberfest,
>> the German term 'Schadenfreude' and so forth. All this comes without any
>further *structure* and is
>> rather confusing.
>
>This is a forum about ontology, so I shouldn't be surprised that everything
>is looked at through "structure"
>glasses. You will be confused, because the internal structure is not
>apparent, and the "structure"
>presented is created for wik.me by inference.
>
>You're expecting too much from the site - think of it as search engine with
>just a little more structure.
> (09)
I expect some implied or obvious purpose of whatever structure is added. I
don't see it. (010)
>> After clicking on the city Duesseldorf, I don't get any additional results
>but just the around the Web section.
>
>The hope is that people like you, who know something about Dusseldorf, will
>add some facts about it. I note that
>no-one on this forum has tried that yet so perhaps we need to make the
>mechanism more obvious.
>
>> Powerset.com, for instance, followed a similar but way more advanced
>approach in 2008 before they got bought
>> and closed by Microsoft. The same is true for Freebase and other projects
>that provide structured data.
>
>No. This I take issue with. Powerset may have developed some advanced NLP,
>but the scope, intent and execution of the project were very different.
>Scope and intent for Freebase are similar, but wik.me is fundamentally
>different
>in it's structures and in the way it allows people to interact with data.
>Ask your eight-year-old daughter to add a
>fact about Dusseldorf at FreeBase and see how you go ;-)
>
>> Again, maybe I just used the wrong terms for testing, but I do not see
>where wik.me is going or who will use it.
>
>It's a proof-of-concept for us. Until we can get more data into it, I'll
>concede that for most it has little more than curiosity value.
> (011)
It does raise my curiosity and I whish that experience would not be so
disappointing. (012)
>Steve
>
>
>
>
>On 1 March 2011 02:20, Krzysztof Janowicz <jano@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Frankly speaking I am having a hard time making sense out of wik.me. For
>> instance, I typed in Germany and got about 30 results in the 'Germany may
>> include' list. Most of them were about German soccer teams, heavy metal
>> bands, or the city Ogden in Utah. From my perspective this list does not
>> follow any order nor does it contain relevant links about Germany in general
>> (leaving the first link aside). The 'Around the Web' section lists some
>> links also contained on the first page of a Google search for the same
>> term.
>>
>> After following the first link from the 'Germany may include' list, I get a
>> single sentence definition of Germany and then a category called 'Contains'.
>> This category seems to be spatial containment at first but it is not. I
>> lists some German cities, some German states, the Oktoberfest, the German
>> term 'Schadenfreude' and so forth. All this comes without any further
>> *structure* and is rather confusing. After clicking on the city Duesseldorf,
>> I don't get any additional results but just the around the Web section.
>>
>> Powerset.com, for instance, followed a similar but way more advanced
>> approach in 2008 before they got bought and closed by Microsoft. The same is
>> true for Freebase and other projects that provide structured data.
>>
>> Again, maybe I just used the wrong terms for testing, but I do not see
>> where wik.me is going or who will use it.
>>
>> Best,
>> Krzysztof
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/28/2011 12:36 AM, ZENG, MARCIA wrote:
>>
>> @Doug: Great analysis. Steve already explained what they have used. I am
>> forwarding it just in case. --Marcia
>>
>> Forwarded Message
>> *From: *Stephen Young <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> *Reply-To: *"[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> *Date: *Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:55:19 -0500
>> *To: *"[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> *Subject: *Re: [ontolog-forum] the data mining craze
>>
>>
>> > It would be interesting to see the taxonomy, for example, ‘shape’ is the
>> first under ‘people’.
>> > Thanks for sharing this interesting service!
>>
>> Our pleasure, Marcia :-)
>>
>> What you found is a basic categorisation that wik.me <http://wik.me> uses
>> to group concepts - mainly for page presentation purposes. wik.me/1 <
>> http://wik.me/1> is what you get when it can't find any concept that
>> closely matches your search.
>>
>> The real "taxonomy" is derived from WordNet - the top level concepts can be
>> traced directly to WordNet noun synsets. WordNet is a fantastic resource,
>> and this has been a common strategy. Root is "entity" at http://wik.me/2s.
>>
>> I mentioned in my first post to this forum that our aim was to create a
>> structure that could serve as a kind of devolved universal
>> ontology/universal data schema. The challenge has been to find a structure
>> that maintains this universality, but still offers some usefulness. What we
>> have at the moment has even fewer axioms than WordNet - and I'm sure we
>> could introduce more. It's a work-in-progress, and I'd certainly value the
>> input of anyone on this forum who is interested.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> On 2/27/11 11:16 PM, "doug foxvog" <doug@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, February 27, 2011 11:44, ZENG, MARCIA said:
>> > I happen to find the taxonomy behind wik.me, starting from the high
>> level:
>> >
>> > * organization
>> > * person
>> > * production
>> > * location
>> > * event
>>
>> Very general concepts included in wik.me are not subclasses of anything
>> in this list. A top-level concept that SHOULD include all of these is
>> "Entity", defined as "That which is perceived or known or inferred to
>> have its own distinct existence (living or nonliving)." I suppose
>> things like "corner" would not be entities, since they have no
>> independent existence.
>>
>> I don't see that wik.me has a taxonomy. It has concepts, which are
>> specified as "of" one or two other concepts. This "of" can sometimes
>> mean a subclass relation, sometimes mean an instance of relation, and
>> other times have other meanings.
>>
>> For example, the "Corner" which is defined as "an interior angle
>> formed by two meeting walls" is "of" both "building" and "area".
>>
>> The listed set leaves things such as organisms out. One would think
>> that they all should be subclass of "Entity". If you follow some type
>> of animal up the hierarchy, you find at many levels it is "of" both
>> the next more general taxon AND "of" the current taxon type. E.g.,
>> the concept "Chordata" is "of" both "phylum" and "Animalia". However,
>> "Animalia" is only "of" "kingdom", it is not "of" "Organism". The
>> concept "animal" is "of" both "Animalia" and "Organism", but no chain
>> of "of"s links concepts for most types of animals to the concept "animal".
>>
>> Wik.me provides some interesting results, but it is no taxonomy.
>>
>> -- doug foxvog
>>
>> > http://wik.me/1#foundPages
>>
>> > At each 'category' there is also a synonym ring, for example, e.g.:
>> >
>> > Person
>> >
>> > Of people, organism and causal agent May also be referred to as
>> > individual, mortal, somebody, someone and soul.
>> >
>> > A human being; "there was too much for one person to do".
>> >
>> > It would be interesting to see the taxonomy, for example, 'shape' is the
>> > first under 'people'.
>> > Thanks for sharing this interesting service!
>> > Marcia
>> >
>> > On 2/27/11 4:12 AM, "Stephen Young" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Pavithra, I think you must have misspelled "Einstein".
>> > http://search.wik.me/search.htm?words=Albert+Einstein returns 20+
>> > concepts named for Albert Einstein - and the topmost result is the man
>> > himself. And that list is something you CANNOT get from Google.
>> >
>> > Clicking the top result http://wik.me/lfn2 ("Albert Einstein") also
>> gives
>> > you something you can't get from Google - a self-organised presentation
>> of
>> > what wik.me <http://wik.me> "knows" about Einstein. Google knows
>> > *nothing* about Einstein but where to find pages that contain the string
>> > "Albert Einstein".
>> >
>> > Structured data is always going to permit greater functionality than
>> > keyword indexing. If it didn't, you and I wouldn't have a job ;-)
>> >
>> > But of course Google is more robust - it would have detected your
>> spelling
>> > mistake and given you the most-likely valid alternative. So it should be
>> > with 2000 engineers and over a decade of refinement.
>> >
>> > wik.me <http://wik.me> can also only return results based on the data
>> it
>> > has mapped, which means it's a valid alternative to Google for only a
>> > minority of searches. Our estimates suggest that with all organisations,
>> > products and services in, we should give a much better experience for
>> > around 65% of all searches currently made against Google. That's next.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 26 February 2011 23:07, Pavithra <pavithra_kenjige@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > wik.me <http://wik.me/> is another search tool with a LIST of results
>> ..
>> > does not provide anything more than Google would. Google is more robust
>> .
>> > This uses information from answers.com <http://answers.com> etc..
>> > The word "Albert Einstein" did not get a result at all, but a list of
>> > names that started with Albert and did not include Einstein.
>> >
>> > Qwiki.com actually provides information on what is typed in. When it can
>> > not find the actual information ( NOT A LIST) it simply says it did not
>> > find it. For example, if you type world's tallest building, it did not
>> > find any information. They need to include lot more data sets..
>> >
>> > Quiki.com seems to be more in the direction of web 3.0 mobile apps with
>> > plenty of room to grow. But the audio is very mechanical, unlike
>> > Watson;s voice. ( :-) )!
>> >
>> > Pavithra
>> >
>> > --- On Fri, 2/25/11, Stephen Young <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Stephen Young <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] the data mining craze
>> > To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 6:28 PM
>> >
>> >
>> > We actually characterised qwiki as the reverse wik.me <http://wik.me>
>> > when we first saw it ;-) All style no substance. There may have been
>> > some bitterness ;-) - we both applied to launch at TechCrunch Disrupt
>> last
>> > year. They got in, we didn't.
>> >
>> > I'm frequently amazed by what captures (and fails to capture) the
>> > imagination of the technology pundit. We presented a site/app that is a
>> > quantum improvement over Web 2.0 structured data plays like Freebase and
>> > Factual. Among other things our video demonstrated that anyone could
>> > change complex structured data with simple twitter-like comments - and
>> yet
>> > we didn't make the cut. Qwiki went on to win the Techrunch Disrupt prize
>> > - followed soon after by some serious venture funding.
>> >
>> > Mind you, this forum is little different. I've just announced the
>> > ontological equivalent of a flying car here and received no more interest
>> > than a few private messages ;-)
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> =============================================================
>> doug foxvog doug@xxxxxxxxxx http://ProgressiveAustin.org
>>
>> "I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great
>> initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."
>> - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
>> =============================================================
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Krzysztof Janowicz
>>
>> GeoVISTA Center, Department of Geography, 302 Walker Building
>> Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802, USA
>>
>> Email: jano@xxxxxxx
>> Webpage: http://www.personal.psu.edu/kuj13/
>> Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>--
>Stephen Young
>CEO @ factnexus.com
>Architect @ wik.me
>Founding member @ knowledgerights.org
> (013)
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