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Re: [ontolog-forum] 3D+1 (was presentism...was blah blah blah)

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Rich Cooper <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 12:09:59 -0600
Message-id: <0BB305F8-64F7-4605-9CB3-9068DB4E828A@xxxxxxx>

On Feb 8, 2011, at 11:01 PM, Pat Hayes wrote:    (01)

> 
> On Feb 4, 2011, at 4:03 PM, Rich Cooper wrote:
> 
>> Pat, you wrote:
>>      In fact, with a bit of extra work one can embed almost all the
>> necessary temporal reasoning into a generalized unification algorithm which
>> extracts temporal constraints during the unification process. I have all the
>> details somewhere if you (or anyone else) are interested.
>> 
>> Please do send me the "details" about the "generalized unification algorithm
>> which extracts temporal constraints within the unification process".  I am
>> very interested in such material and references.  
> 
> The only write-up is in a final report to the Army written in 2004. I've put 
>a copy here:
> 
> http://beta.ihmc.us/users/phayes/Trickledown2004.pdf    (02)

Sorry, wrong URI. This should be      (03)

http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes/Trickledown2004.pdf    (04)

> 
> 
> feel free to use it. The Army didn't think enough of it to continue funding 
>the project, so its been languishing since then. 
> 
> Pat
> 
>> 
>> Thanks for the offer,
>> -Rich
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> Rich Cooper
>> EnglishLogicKernel.com
>> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
>> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pat Hayes
>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:38 AM
>> To: ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; [ontolog-forum] 
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] 3D+1 (was presentism...was blah blah blah)
>> 
>> Ian, here's a non-philosophical way to characterize it. Start with an atomic
>> sentence of the form R(a, b), with no time involved, and suppose that a and
>> b here are ordinary uncontroversial physical objects, say. Intuitively, they
>> are 3D things. Now add time, t. Where do we put the time parameter? Several
>> answers can be given. 
>> 
>> 1. Attach it to the sentence, meaning that the sentence R(a,b) is true at
>> the time t.  This gives you a hybrid or context logic where the times are
>> possible temporal worlds/indices or contexts, to which truth is relativized.
>> But the sentences being so relativized do not themselves make any reference
>> to time. Call this 3D.
>> 
>> 2. Attach it to the relation as an extra argument, and call the relation a
>> 'fluent': R(a, b, t) This gives you the classical AI/KR approach which used
>> to be called the situation calculus, where one quantifies over times in the
>> KR language itself, but the object terms are still thought of as denoting 3D
>> rather than 4D entities. Call this 3D+1.
>> 
>> 3. Attach it to the object terms (using a suitable function, written here as
>> an infix @): R(a@t, b@t) This requires us to make sense of this @ operation,
>> and it seems natural to say that it means the t-slice of the thing named,
>> which now has to be re-thought as a 4D entity. So the a, b things have
>> morphed form being 3D (but lasting through time) to being genuinely 4D, and
>> having temporal slices or parts. Call this 4D.
>> 
>> For some folk this last step is apparently mind-boggling, although to me it
>> is puzzling how one can think of something being 3D and also extended in
>> time and have it *not* be 4D. For yet other people (think OBO), there are
>> apparently two kinds of thing in the world, one kind (continuants) which
>> must be described using the 3D+1 style , the other (occurrents) which should
>> be described using the 4D style. God alone knows why anyone would believe
>> that there are two ways to exist in time, but there's nowt as queer as folk,
>> as someone's grandmother used to say. 
>> 
>> What I like about this way of contrasting the options is that it makes it be
>> simply a matter of syntax - where in the sentence to attach the temporal
>> parameter - and not one of metaphysics. Syntax is way easier than
>> metaphysics. It also means that one can see quite clearly how to make the
>> various formal techniques work together, by allowing the temporal parameter
>> to 'float'. In fact, with a bit of extra work one can embed almost all the
>> necessary temporal reasoning into a generalized unification algorithm which
>> extracts temporal constraints during the unification process. I have all the
>> details somewhere if you (or anyone else) are interested. 
>> 
>> Pat
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Ian Bailey wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks John,
>>> 
>>> So in a 3+1 approach, when they actually "cut some ontology code", if I've
>>> understood you correctly, I'm guessing they timestamp the properties and
>>> relationships ? This contrasts with a 4D approach where the Individual is
>>> sliced up into temporal stages and the properties are associated with the
>>> stages (apart from those properties that apply to the whole-life
>>> individual).
>>> 
>>> If I've got that right, then 3+1 is the approach the oil and gas folks
>> used
>>> in late 80s early 90s on EPISTLE and the first drafts of ISO10303-221. Am
>> I
>>> in the right ball park there ?  Matthew ?
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> --
>>> Ian
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John F. Sowa
>>> Sent: 27 January 2011 17:05
>>> To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] 3D+1 (was presentism...was blah blah blah)
>>> 
>>> On 1/27/2011 11:17 AM, Ian Bailey wrote:
>>>> I get 4D, finally, after years of hanging on Chris and
>>>> Matthew's coattails, but the 3D+1 thing is a mystery.
>>> 
>>> The basic issue is the definition of a physical object
>>> and its relationship to a privileged time called 'now':
>>> 
>>> 1. In 3+1 D, which is the implicit assumption in ordinary
>>>   language, an object (human, animal, plant, or artifact)
>>>   comes into existence at some time t1 (e.g., birth),
>>>   ceases to exist at some time t2 (e.g., death), and
>>>   for each now between t1 and t2, all parts of it
>>>   exist together now.
>>> 
>>> 2. In 4D, a physical object extends over a 4D volume, whose
>>>   lower and upper time coordinates are t1 and t2 and whose
>>>   spatial coordinates trace out a volume that spans the
>>>   object's travels.
>>> 
>>> 3, In 3+1 D, the object undergoes various changes, which
>>>   cause some properties to become true or false at different
>>>   times called now.
>>> 
>>> 4. In 4D, the object doesn't change, but it has time-dependent
>>>   parts (slices or stages) at which various properties may be
>>>   true or false.
>>> 
>>> The analogy I prefer (since I studied fluid mechanics at one
>>> time in my life) is between Lagrangian and Eulerian coordinate
>>> systems for representing and computing fluid flow:
>>> 
>>> 1. Lagrangian coordinates are like a 3+1 D system:  the
>>>   observer follows a particular parcel of fluid as it moves.
>>> 
>>> 2. Eulerian coordinates are like a 4D system:  the observer
>>>   sits on the side and watches the flow of all the fluid
>>>   as a whole.
>>> 
>>> In our ordinary language, we talk about our bodies in Lagrangian
>>> terms.  We observe our own motion through space and time, and
>>> relate everything else to where we are *now*.
>>> 
>>> An Eulerian system is like a God's eye view of the universe.
>>> God sees everything spread out in all dimensions of space
>>> and time.  There is no privileged point of time or space.
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
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>> 
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> ------------------------------------------------------------
> IHMC                                     (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973   
> 40 South Alcaniz St.           (850)202 4416   office
> Pensacola                            (850)202 4440   fax
> FL 32502                              (850)291 0667   mobile
> phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us       http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
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>     (05)

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IHMC                                     (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973   
40 South Alcaniz St.           (850)202 4416   office
Pensacola                            (850)202 4440   fax
FL 32502                              (850)291 0667   mobile
phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us       http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes    (06)






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