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Re: [ontolog-forum] Categorical Views of a Universe

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "doug foxvog" <doug@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 07:19:30 -0500 (EST)
Message-id: <56351.71.192.24.175.1296130770.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Wed, January 26, 2011 21:05, Rich Cooper said:    (01)

> Agreed re the "why don't we use multiple frame of references", I agree.
> There must be ways to make multiple viewpoints available in predefined
> extensions of the one true universal viewpoint of an ontology.    (02)

I'm not sure that the "one true universal viewpoint" is useful.  The
truly universal part would be quite small.  Some fields of endeavor
would deal with non-physical objects such as financial accounts, while
others deal with anatomy or shipping of physical objects.    (03)

> Maybe, learning from event oriented multiple control system supporter
> Rodney
> Brooks (but without the NNs) and object-oriented languages, we should
> consider a new subject, as in this email, we should consider multiple
> independent ontologies, perhaps even weakly and strongly interconnected
> ones.    (04)

A network of interconnected ontologies on different subject matter or
ways of looking at the universe (e.g., 3D vs. 4D) is what John Sowa and
i, among others have been promoting.    (05)

> Would those ontologies change with time, or just die out as individuals
> and be replaced by their some chain of descendants, like us.    (06)

Knowledge bases built on the ontologies would change rapidly.  The
ontologies, themselves, would change at a slower rate.  So long as
the changes were additions (new types of accounts, genes, products)
they could remain the "same" ontology -- however, versioning might
be useful.  Removal of statements in an ontology would suggest either
creating descendant ontologies or a strong versioning system.    (07)

Old ontologies need not die, but if they are no longer used, they would
fade away.    (08)

-- doug    (09)

> Curiously,
>
> -Rich
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Rich Cooper
>
> EnglishLogicKernel.com
>
> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
>
> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
>
>   _____
>
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tara Athan
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 1:50 PM
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: [ontolog-forum] Presentism (was Re: Ontology of Rough Sets)
>
>
>
> While admittedly not bothering with the details of how it would be
> implemented, presentism strikes me as a temporal reference frame with
> origin
> = now, rather than origin =  big bang or  January 1st, 1970, or ...
> Geographers get accustomed to dealing with multiple spatial reference
> frames, I don't see why we can't accept multiple temporal reference frames
> as well. The key is to specify what reference frame you are working in
> (another sense of context for Pat Hayes list?) and have invertible,
> well-posed transformations for lifting knowledge between them. A simple
> shift in time seems trivial compared to the gymnastics we go through to
> convert between WGS84 and UTM NAD83.
>
> May I suggest an example I consider more apropos (than databases) as a
> source with a presentist reference frame? : real-time data services.
>
> Tara
>
> PS. And speaking of context, may I suggest another thread?  While I take
> great pride in having a role in stirring up the hornet's nest with our
> original rough set discussion, that subject line is no longer very
> informative ...
>
> Rich Cooper wrote:
>
> Further agreed.
>
> Knowledge can be modeled as timeless, but the intuitive notion of learning
> expects knowledge to increase with experience.  The generally accepted
> rule
> of thumb is that efficiency increases by 20 to 30 percent for every
> doubling
> of experience.  Therefore knowledge does, in fact, increase with the
> learning individual.
>
> So any timeless model will have to have projections of the timeless
> individuals onto useful classes of present individuals otherwise filtered
> into the context.  Whether the context can be modeled as timeless is a
> completely different question, and just as complex.
>
> -Rich
>
> Sincerely,
> Rich Cooper
> EnglishLogicKernel.com
> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ronald
> Stamper
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:40 PM
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology of Rough Sets
>
> Agreed!
>
> Ronald
>
> On 26 Jan 2011, at 12:44, John F. Sowa wrote:
>
>
>
> Ronald and Pat,
>
> There is no such thing as a single, ideal ontology that captures
> every useful way of looking at everything from every possible
> perspective and granularity for every purpose.
>
> There are many different theories of contexts, situations,
> and situated communicating and interacting agents.  Those
> systems, theories, and implementations are valuable and
> efficient for many kinds of purposes.  In fact, they reflect
> the way people happen to be situated in some finite chunk
> of reality from one moment to the next.
>
> But other representations are useful for different applications,
> and there are systematic ways of converting one to the other.
> In particular, it's important to communicate with situated agents
> in terms of the situation in which they are operating.
>
> When an accident is imminent, you don't want to send a driver
> (or the car) a fully-qualified 4D specification.  You just want
> to say "STOP!"
>
> Fundamental principle:  Any single uniform universal representation
> is guaranteed to be awkward, inconvenient, or inefficient for a huge
> number of critical applications.
>
> John
>
>
>
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> --
> Tara Athan
> Owner, Athan Ecological Reconciliation Services
> tara_athan at alt2is.com
> 707-272-2115 (cell, preferred)
> 707-485-1198 (office)
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=============================================================
doug foxvog    doug@xxxxxxxxxx   http://ProgressiveAustin.org    (011)

"I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great
initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."
    - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
=============================================================    (012)


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