Dear Jack, (01)
> Let's be clear that the issue concerns the quality of something. An
ontology
> containing an occurrence may use a binary representation while
representing a
> continuance or persistence is not. However the issue is not about how
things
> are represented by the ontology the issue is about the utility of the
> ontology. One aspect of reality that is binary according to W. Edwards
Deming,
> Phil Crosby, Juran, et al. is the attribute of quality of a thing. Others
like
> high quality. It may be that they speak of highly pregnant as well. So be
it. (02)
MW: What is called for is being able to distinguish a binary situation from
a non-binary situation. The original quality work of the distinguished
gentlemen you mention was around the manufacture of mechanical parts for
which a specification could be created which they either met or did not. It
was simple. If it did not meet the spec you did not think of using it, it
was scrap. Not everything is as simple, and certainly not software. (03)
Regards (04)
Matthew West
Information Junction
Tel: +44 560 302 3685
Mobile: +44 750 3385279
matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.informationjunction.co.uk/
http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/ (05)
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> Jack
>
> On Dec 15, 2010, at 5:25 PM, Manuel Mora T. wrote:
>
> > Dear colleagues,
> > Ontologies is related with Philosophy issues (so part of my real
interest)
> > and Philosophy is about reality (how is structured, how is
knowledgeable,
> > and how is tranformed)). Reality is not binary and any included concept
> > is also not binary. Of course, any observer can define a binary
measurement
> > system, but a continuous ones is better. Philosophy is also on
> > spiritual issues, in such cases, the scales are binary! --> goodness
> > or oppositive (of course with different extent of positive or negative
> > impacts on the system). Well, just a contribution for it,
> > Manuel Mora
> >
> >
> > Jack Ring wrote:
> >> One more try.
> >> Tell us, is YOUR "perfection" binary?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 15, 2010, at 3:42 PM, Christopher Menzel wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Dec 15, 2010, at 3:18 PM, Jack Ring wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> (Moved from ontology-summit)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Christopher Menzel <cmenzel@xxxxxxxx>
> >>>> December 15, 2010 10:35:44 AM MST
> >>>> Wrote ---
> >>>> This just isn't relevant. Matthew provided a simple counterexample to
> >>>> your assertion that "quality is binary": a case where there are five
> >>>> (equally severe) bugs in a program and four are fixed is obviously an
> >>>> improvement in quality short of perfection. Case closed; quality
> >>>> isn't binary (unless you mean something idiosyncratic by "quality").
> >>>> Your pointing out that you can modify the conditions of his example
> >>>> in such a way that it is no longer a counterexample is irrelevant.
> >>>> Suppose you claim that all the balls in the bin are red or green. If
> >>>> Matthew reaches in and pulls out a blue one, it is no defense of your
> >>>> claim to reach in and pull out a red or green one. ++++++++++++
> >>>> Christopher,
> >>>> I have reviewed Matthew's original post and do not find "(equally
> >>>> severe)" anywhere. So I will let Matthew speak for himself and point
> >>>> out to you that "severe" is a Highly Ambiguous term (or will
> >>>> ambiguous suffice?)
> >>>
> >>> You're still missing the point. True, Matthew did not expressly say
> >>> "equally severe", but he was obviously purporting to give you a
> >>> counterexample to "quality is binary", so it is incumbent upon us as
> >>> charitable readers to interpret his words so as to make the best sense
> >>> of them in the context. But look, let's suppose (what is wildly
> >>> untrue) that Matthew is so thick that he wouldn't have realized that
in
> >>> order for the scenario he proffered to serve as a counterexample, the
> >>> program bugs would have to be roughly equal in severity (and of
> >>> sufficient severity to impede the program's intended function). It is
> >>> STILL the case that the tidied up version that I provided IS a
> >>> counterexample and THAT — namely, that counterexamples to "quality is
> >>> binary" exist — was the point. To alter the analogy: Suppose you
claim
> >>> that all the balls in the bin are red or green. And suppose Matthew,
> >>> poor color-blind fellow, reaches in and grabs what he thinks is a blue
> >>> ball when in fact it is green. But then suppose I reach in and pull
> >>> out an actual blue ball. It is no defense of your claim that
> >>> "ball-in-the-bin-colors are binary" to point out Matthew's error.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Also, pls be aware that "quality is binary" is not my assertion. It
> >>>> is a report about what's going on in the real world.
> >>>
> >>> People give false/misleading/confused/incoherent reports of what's
> >>> going on in "the real world" all the time. So what? We've simply
> >>> stumbled into another one.
> >>>
> >>>> If you choose to present your view of quality in a case for use by
> >>>> the Ontology Summit with business people then don't be surprised if
> >>>> the audience reaction is 'just another software weenie.'
> >>>
> >>> Ah, the trusty ad hominem. Last resort of the man bereft of
arguments.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Chris Menzel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > Manuel Mora, EngD.
> > Full Professor and Researcher "C" Level
> > Autonomous University of Aguascalientes
> > Ave. Universidad 940
> > Aguascalientes, Ags.
> > México 20100
> > www.uaa.mx
> > ----------------------------------------------
> >
> >
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