Re: [ontolog-forum] Semantic patterns and logic expression

[Ali Hashemi <ali.hashemi+ontolog@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

I'm a bit embarrassed to have to add this qualification, but the "criticism" i'm anticipating and responding to here seems to pop-up like clockwork on this forum. So before people jump on my statement of :

> > "...the field of mathematics has already formalized and characterized a lot of
> > the useful statements we can make in a formal language such as FOL. So
> > it suggested to us to start inputting ontologies for these well
> > understood theories and then see how they were being reused in other
> > fields."
This statement in no way implies that we believe the world is described completely by only mathematical based theories or that they are the only important ones or anything along this line of criticism. 


It doesn't mean the world is mathematical, or anything more than simply, mathematics are really useful in formal ontologies!  Indeed, they reflect a large category of theories that are very well developed and understood with a huge base of support and applications pretty much everywhere, so it seems like a great (or if you like, partial) starting point for a family of interlingua ontologies in a repository.


(Mathematical theories certainly have far more widespread applications, adoption, integration and practical in-use experience than OpenCyc :P.  <--- note.. this statement isn't meant to imply that OpenCyc shouldn't be included, just to point out that there we already are using a lot of the same basic structures again and again, except, instead of "top-down upperontologies" it's bottom-up logical foundations :D:D)


Cheers,
Ali

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Ali Hashemi <ali.hashemi+ontolog@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear Jim.

Would it be possible for you to share the things you refer to here:

"I have found a very few things that I had trouble expressing in FOL, and
they were not very important. "

I don't think anyone has nailed down quite what the phrase "semantic pattern" means. I've employed the term logical structure, which corresponds to recurring sets of axioms that cut across domains. This _may_ be similar to what you're looking for.

My general impression is that there is no _a priori_ method in determining what these patterns are, since the number of axioms you could generate in FOL is infinite, and only a subset fit to our uses in the world.

The approach employed in COLORE at uncovering these "semantic patterns" (correct me if i've misinterpreted your intention) is to first and foremost, and i can't stress this enough...

start writing axioms in FOL!

Once we have these intuitions formalized, we can see if there are recurring patterns. As I alluded to in a previous note, we've also developed a procedure which would seek out and determine relationships between different ontologies / modules. If many, disparate ontologies seem to be using the same sets of logical axioms (with differing labels), then perhaps they constitute a "semantic pattern."

Another element of our approach is that the field of mathematics has already formalized and characterized a lot of the useful statements we can make in a formal language such as FOL. So it suggested to us to start inputting ontologies for these well understood theories and then see how they were being reused in other fields. I'm writing another note to this forum which will expand on interoperability given the expressiveness of the language.

Lastly, from the DL perspective, there is wonderful work being done at http://ontologydesignpatterns.org/wiki/Main_Page ; perhaps that is also what you are referring to!

Best,
Ali

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Jim Rhyne <jrr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Chris,
I was making an inquiry, not a challenge.
As a practical matter, since I am a technical consultant for hire, I do not
always get to choose the formalism I work in, and I and the client have to
live with the consequences.
I have found a very few things that I had trouble expressing in FOL, and
they were not very important. These could have been failures of creativity
on my part. I put that in the note to see if others have had similar
problems.
Still, it would be interesting to me to have a catalog of "semantic
patterns" (whatever those might be) and their _expression_ in FOL (or CLIF,
...). Do you agree with that?
Thanks, Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher
Menzel
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:05 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]

Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Semantic patterns and logic _expression_

On Feb 21, 2010, at 12:57 PM, Jim Rhyne wrote:
> I frequently have to define a semantic pattern, but find that it cannot be
expressed in the current versions of DL, or OWL Full, or in FOL.

I'm afraid I don't believe you. :-)  Can you give an example of a semantic
pattern you can't express in FOL?  (You are of course correct about the
limitations of OWL-DL, but those exist by design in order to preserve
decidability.)

Chris Menzel


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