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Re: [ontolog-forum] Structure of an FO consortium?

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Patrick Cassidy" <pat@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:38:07 -0500
Message-id: <029501caa5e2$576095e0$0621c1a0$@com>


   [DN] >> What would the “Consortium” be?  I have been involved in standards work for over a decade and would not recommend starting a new SDO for this project, opting instead to utilize the existing processes and IPR policy infrastructures of existing SDO’s like OASIS, IEEE, OMG etc.


   Other than having some identifiable set of voting members, the actual organization is open to discussion, but the need to accommodate the financial accountability rules for any funding source would probably require that it be nominally controlled through some well-established university or non-profit.  Since the goal is to demonstrate that an FO would have wide usability, there would have to be an effort to identify as many as possible of the potential user communities for an FO, and get some representatives from each of those communities who could be sure that their special concerns were accommodated.  In addition to any of the FO developers who would want to participate, we would surely need representation from the Ontology Mapping community, the W3C, OMG, OASIS, the NIEM group, the Modeling  and Simulation  community, some group that would focus on database integration and federated search, the natural language community (creating a WordNet-like resource with a logically accurate hierarchy would be very useful), some who have worked on other large projects such as CALO and LarKC,  some from the reasoning community, perhaps a Protégé-like tool developer, and if feasible some commercial groups that might have some very practical experience to supply, if they were willing to adhere to a very open IPR policy for this project’s results.  I also think we need to reach out to groups in China – Chinese text may well dominate the web in the not-too-distant future and this project should handle Chinese as well as European language-based perspectives.   I think in order to be as widely usable as possible, the results have to be effectively public domain, with only perhaps some copyrights or trademarks  to avoid misuse of the name of the organization and products.

It certainly would seem that an existing SDO might accelerate setting up the rules.  I just think it would not be feasible to  use a consensus approach, since we already have a history of ontology developers unenthusiastic about adopting anyone else’s ontological commitments.   Where there are differences, making decisions quickly by voting will be I think critical to achieving anything useful in a reasonable time frame.  Those who are paid to participate in this project would have to agree ahead of time to a set of rules for resolving disagreements.   The problems they may face should be fairly clear from preliminary discussions, and those who are unwilling to make whatever adjustments may seem necessary would presumably not agree to participate.  The commitment of participants would include developing some local application (could be done by ad hoc groups of participants) and demonstrating the ability to accurately communicate information among the various applications, using the FO.  I think it will be possible to get 100 competent people representing a lot of different perspectives to give this approach a try.




Patrick Cassidy



cell: 908-565-4053



From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Duane Nickull
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:57 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Foundation Ontology Primitives



Your process has a lot of merit.  I would advocate others reading it too (slides 60-72 of Pat’s PPT – the newest version).  It helps clarify a lot of the questions I had in my mind.

Question:  What would the “Consortium” be?  I have been involved in standards work for over a decade and would not recommend starting a new SDO for this project, opting instead to utilize the existing processes and IPR policy infrastructures of existing SDO’s like OASIS, IEEE, OMG etc.  The overhead of setting up a new organization and getting lawyers to write IPR policies etc is very time consuming.  Do you favour one over the others due to an alignment of goals or features or would this be something the conveners would jointly decide.

PS – sometimes I wish Ontolog Forum was itself an SDO ;-p

On 2/4/10 10:31 AM, "Patrick Cassidy" <pat@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

A reply to questions from Ali Hashemi:
> The steps in creating an FO consist roughly of the following (correct me
if i'm wrong):
1.      Identify candidate ontological primitives, identify candidate
logical primitives
2.      Figure out similarities and differences of candidates
3.      Develop mappings between candidates
4.      Reach consensus on what are the "-true-" // appropriate// useful
Steps 1-3 are in effect, figuring out the mappings between the current
existing Upper Ontologies (assuming they provide adequate cover). Step 4 is
where the FO differs. Making the case to do 1-3 is much easier, and less
risky as it provides immediate tangible benefits to the entire community.
(and subsequently)
>> [AH]
You've suggested a number of times that I've misinterpreted your intuition, yet as far as I can see, each time you write about the FO, it seems to change its flavour. I'll abstain from commenting further until the idea has solidified.

> What I am very curious about however - I suggested a number of steps / benchmarks through which such an exercise might be conducted. You responded that it is only one interpretation. Might you put forth _your_ interpretation of how one might go about, step-by-step in formulating such an FO?  I think this would help clarify what you mean to communicate and minimize future misunderstandings.
OK. I have refrained from describing a detailed process for development of the FO because the process itself will have to be **decided on** by the participants in the FO project, at the preliminary planning stage.  The important issue is to get together a group that will make an attempt to develop a foundation ontology that can support translation among their ontologies, databases,  and applications.  To provide some concrete notion of how the FO project *might* proceed, I have created one hypothetical process, and include it below. The danger of suggesting such a process is that it may become another focus for debate, on a matter peripheral to the main point, i.e. that the best method to get semantic interoperability is to organize a project that includes representatives of users who will find the common elements and show how they can be used to support interoperability among practical applications.  This process below is only one possibility; if parts of it seem to have problems, keep that notion in reserve and let us know your objections when the project actually begins planning.  Remember that the most important part of the FO project is to *test* it using multiple independently developed interoperable applications.  I have added this hypothetical process to the ppt:
 The section of the ppt that deals with the overall consortium process for developing an FO is on  slides 60 to 72.
•      The FO development method will be agreed to by the participants in preliminary discussions.  One possibility is given here. – but a different method may be chosen
–     Start with all foundation ontologies (“upper ontologies”)  used by the participants, plus the root concepts in the hierarchies of the domain ontologies (and database schemas) and all of the relations used in the ontologies and databases of the participants
–     Determine which of those are identical in intended meaning, and whether those that appear to be identical can be organized in a common ontology, allowing alternate means of expressing the same intended meaning, and providing translations among the alternate expressions.
–     For elements that are not identical in meaning, determine whether they can be added to the base common FO without creating logical inconsistencies.
–     If logical inconsistencies are detected, determine if the creators/users of the inconsistent  ontologies can agree on a consistent representation adequate for their purposes; if so, add that to the FO; if not, determine how to describe their differing elements using the common FO, and add those elements as parts of mutually inconsistent extensions to the FO.
–     For those elements (types and relations) that are not identical in intended meaning, determine if they can be logically specified (described or expressed) as combinations of the elements already in the FO.  If not, they can be added to the FO as additional primitives, if so they can be added to a mid-level or domain extension – or retained in the FO if there are no objections.
•      The resulting FO will be the first version, to be tested for its ability to support interoperability.
•      This version will be refined as experience by the consortium using the FO in practical applications demonstrates the need for modification.
And later:
[AH[ >
Firstly, if the current 5-6 upper ontologies are interconnected with appropriate mappings, and new ontologies are extensions of any of those 5-6, then we have de facto interoperability. This is why I have been saying that steps 1-3 in "my interpretation" make the subsequent FO superfluous.

I believe that the method of trying to recognize semantic primitives is the most efficient method of developing translations.  I say “translations” rather than “mappings” because the traditional notion of mappings often covers only parts of the mapped ontologies, doesn’t have a means of converting formats, and doesn’t guarantee a high level of accuracy in the conversion.  But your project may have all those properties – I do not know the details.  Since there is a large overlap in the intended result, it is likely that, even if both projects proceed simultaneously, many of the same people may participate in both. But I do not think from what I know thus far that either could be substituted for the other.
Patrick Cassidy
cell: 908-565-4053

Secondly, I have not suggested it is impossible. I have suggested  it is unclear whether it is possible, and more importantly that even if it were, it would yield limited value, as all the work is in generating those mappings.

Thirdly, I have not suggested the project can be achieved via volunteer work. Steps 1-3 (in "my interpretation"), depending on the level of detail and implementation seem like a prime candidate for a Master of PhD thesis.

Lastly, logical compatibility does not guarantee interoperability. You simply need to know where there is agreement and difference, and if you want to communicate with a system in another paradigm / UO family, then you must make the appropriate allowances from your own perspective. Though perhaps this is a case of us using language slightly differently.


Patrick Cassidy
cell: 908-565-4053


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