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Re: [ontolog-forum] Just What Is an Ontology, Anyway?

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Matthew West" <dr.matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:16:22 -0000
Message-id: <4aeb57bc.0508d00a.6e1d.2157@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Dear Rich,

 

Copied from below:

 

But then how do we account for the diverse viewpoints going into the system from multiple users?  We all agree that each user has a unique ontology of her personal world.  We know that subjectivity gets squeezed into the tightest databases with the strictest controls.  

 

MW: You  can’t. And in fact the problem really is just how do you impose sufficiently strict controls such that the range of meaning is sufficiently small that sufficiently accurate communication is possible.

 

“Imposing controls” is the wrong approach.  It might work for extremely simple jobs like a standard cashier quest check.  But even there, imagine yourself at a table in a restaurant; you want your burger done protein style, hold the relish, wrapped in lettuce, without mayonnaise, with an extra salt packet.  Can the store’s IT designer predict what you, the customer, will order?  Some of those “strict controls” drive away customers.  They also stifle change and adaptability. 

 

MW: That’s a non-sequitur. The problem here is flexibility and expressiveness, not different viewpoints. If you  cannot communicate that this is what you want (because there is too much ambiguity) you  will not get what you  want (except accidentally).

 

You must.  As John Sowa is fond of saying, people play language games. 

 

MW: But computers don’t.

 

Those games are more complicated than we can decipher from signs alone.  So one enterprise level purpose of each subjective personal ontology is to “correct” the personal viewpoint, projecting it back into the enterprise ontology.  

 

MW: This is essentially the process of agreeing the enterprise ontology, or aligning with it.

 

But not at the focus of the employee; each employee has her own ontology.  Only part of her ontology aligns with the enterprise ontology.  If you have ever managed a staff of people, you understand how diverse and inherently unmanageable people are.  It takes work spent learning new skills by you as the manager to get people to do what the enterprise requires.  And those skills require you to understand each employee’s needs if you plan to work with her for more than one transaction.  Every job is negotiated, not rigidly specified, for most forms of work.  There are few assembly line processes with people pegged into slots any more.  The person with her own viewpoint is what you want to empower, enable, leverage, and automate.  The enterprise has to gain during that process with each transaction, at least on the average. 

 

So in my opinion, the focus of the employee ontology ought to be personal, with projections onto organizational or group ontologies that enable work flow.  

 

MW: To me that is an argument that an ontology should be extensible to take in new concepts, not  that it is good for people to have different independent ontologies.

 

But note that if you project the disjunction of all personal ontologies to make up the enterprise ontology, you have to match common items shared among personal ontologies.

 

MW: I don’t know anyone who would do it like that. Much more likely is that a few people determine the enterprise ontology, and then others are left with aligning their own viewpoint with it.

 

I certainly wouldn’t do it like that either; I am using it above as a conceptual aid to get the idea across about how the enterprise ontology and the employee ontology ought to be related.  And the “few people” you mentioned should include all employees interacting with the network, IMHO.  But employees who have to “align their own viewpoint” by themselves are probably not functioning at full performance levels.  

 

MW: I think I have yet to meet anyone in a large organization who is functioning at full performance levels. I don’t think this is anything to do with ontology though.

 

For example, probably most or all normal English speakers think of fluids in one way, solids in another and gases in a third.  The English language reflects the way we talk about the things belonging to these different classes.

 

MW: One has to be very careful about this. Language includes lots of old ways of thinking about things that are not accurate. Ontology is about modeling how things are in the world, not how we talk about them.

 

I disagree because “how we talk about things” is the process of communication that the enterprise ontology is supposed to leverage in the first place, at least in my grand vision of things.  Rigid and fixed enterprise ontology will not do the job.  

 

MW: Why do you insist that I am advocating a rigid and fixed ontology. When did I say that?

 

Language is very flexible precisely because we have evolved commonly understood ways of twisting and reforming language to fit our newest needs.  

 

By force fitting “the” ontology onto the user, we perpetuate the errors of old technologies.  Technology has gotten so cheap, so plentiful and so prevalent that we can afford to tailor our systems to the individuals now.  The point is to leverage people, and the enterprise gains from the rising tide of productivity.  

 

MW: I can only say that my own experience is the opposite. I can agree that each person  having support for their own view might help them, but the objective is to optimize the performance of the organization not the individual.

 

So there is clearly a linguistic common ontology of objects and classes that constitutes everyday usage.  

 

MW: No there is not, because with everyday language you can express any of the ontologies you might find. Words have such a variety of usages, that it can be difficult to accurately determine the meaning of words out o f context, and sometimes even in context.

 

I cordially disagree because the emphasis should be placed on EVERYDAY OBJECTS, EVENTS and ACTIONS.  For example, the enterprise ontology should understand simple English rule descriptions written in everyday documents in common language.  It should also be able to maintain a database of common events, objects, resources and people in the enterprise.  It should know about the properties of commonly shared objects (meeting rooms, refrigerators, projectors, lunch options …).  If the firm is a law firm, it might understand customer accounts and simple descriptions of the work done there. If the enterprise is a furniture factory, it might understand framing, springs, fabric inventory, pattern design, cutting, piecework, stitching techniques and so on.  

 

MW: Well quite, but now you’re talking about the things in the business, not the words.

 

That can be part of the enterprise ontology.  But its part of EVERY language competent ontology.  

 

MW: I’ve no idea what that might be. As I said above, ontology is about the things in the world, not how we talk about them.

 

We disagree primarily on that point.  Ontology, IMHO, is exactly how we talk about and use the objects, events and actions of our everyday surroundings.  Its purpose is to provide scaffolding for building semantic knowledge into our everyday lives.  

 

MW: Yes, but it is the things we want to talk about, not the words about the things.

 

So the enterprise ontology also includes things specific to the objects about which that enterprise is concerned.

 

Leading to the conclusion that the enterprise ontology will have to be multilayered, scalloped like a 50’s hot rod into component ontologies for each viewpoint and each group of viewpoints.  

 

MW: Well yes you can do that (maybe), but at prohibitive expense because of the interfaces between vewpoints, so I doubt if anyone will. This is back to why a meeting of a French, Italian, German and Spanish people will conduct business in English.

 

With the environment here in the US, we have mainly the King’s English, with relatively little non English material in most of our lives. We have already agreed on the human language.  So the problem here now is to make our systems understand it so we can get them to be more useful! 

 

MW: Oh. I thought you  had rather a lot of Spanish speakers.

 

The task is to automate the six year old.  

 

MW: Well that is certainly not what I am interested in. I’d like to semi-automate the engineer.

 

 

Regards

 

Matthew West                           

Information  Junction

Tel: +44 560 302 3685

Mobile: +44 750 3385279

matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

http://www.informationjunction.co.uk/

http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/

 

This email originates from Information Junction Ltd. Registered in England and Wales No. 6632177.

Registered office: 2 Brookside, Meadow Way, Letchworth Garden City, Hertfordshire, SG6 3JE.

 

 

 

-Rich

 

Regards

 

Matthew West                           

Information  Junction

Tel: +44 560 302 3685

Mobile: +44 750 3385279

matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

http://www.informationjunction.co.uk/

http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/

 

This email originates from Information Junction Ltd. Registered in England and Wales No. 6632177.

Registered office: 2 Brookside, Meadow Way, Letchworth Garden City, Hertfordshire, SG6 3JE.

 

 

 

JMHO,

-Rich

 

Sincerely,

Rich Cooper

EnglishLogicKernel.com

Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com


From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Matthew West
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:35 AM
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Just What Is an Ontology, Anyway?

 

Dear Rich,

 

Looks like I missed something here.

 

 

So it looks like the consensus among those in this discussion is:

 

An ontology is a collection of

 

classes, each with possibly unique property values;

 

a few constant instances (e.g., equilateral triangle = special instance of generalized triangle, etc);

 

I’m not sure that I would see equilateral triangle as an instance. Surely there is more than one of them? On the other hand it could be a subtype of generalized triangle (some triangles are equilateral).

 

On the other hand there are plenty of individuals I might want in my ontology. If I want to define a class of “Ford Motor Car” in my ontology  then it is useful to be able to have the individual “Ford Motor Company” in my ontology so that I can make the restriction class.

 

and

logical relationships among the classes and instances.

 

And nothing else.  If that satisfies everyone, then any operational system would require more than just an ontology.  It would also require that information nobody seems to want to call ontological, like the specific employees in the employee table.  

 

If we accept this definition among the group of us, an ontology with a database to back it would be about the simplest semantic system I can imagine being useful.  The database would store the instance data beyond the ontology, but the ontology would define the classes, properties and relationships among the entities.  

 

MW: It will probably replicate much of the ontology too. It might be better to think of the ontology as an abstraction of the database, with some rules added, so that you can e.g. check the consistency of the database.

 

But then how do we account for the diverse viewpoints going into the system from multiple users?  We all agree that each user has a unique ontology of her personal world.  We know that subjectivity gets squeezed into the tightest databases with the strictest controls.  

 

MW: You  can’t. And in fact the problem really is just how do you impose sufficiently strict controls such that the range of meaning is sufficiently small that sufficiently accurate communication is possible.

 

So how do we account for personal ontologies in a semantic system?

 

MW: The alternative is to document all the individual ontologies and map between them. This is horrendously expensive, so a much cheaper alternative is to sit down and agree to use one in a particular way, which may not be the way that any of the individuals actually sees things, but at least is clear. This is at least analogous to the situation you find when an Italian, and Frenchman, a German and a Spaniard have a business meeting. They speak English, rather than each have 3 translators.

 

So I suggest we return to the real world.

 

Regards

 

Matthew West                           

Information  Junction

Tel: +44 560 302 3685

Mobile: +44 750 3385279

matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

http://www.informationjunction.co.uk/

http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/

 

This email originates from Information Junction Ltd. Registered in England and Wales No. 6632177.

Registered office: 2 Brookside, Meadow Way, Letchworth Garden City, Hertfordshire, SG6 3JE.

 


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