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Re: [ontolog-forum] Semantic Systems

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Rich Cooper" <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 08:55:00 -0700
Message-id: <20090716155517.A44EF138CFA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>





Rich Cooper


Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com


Gary Berg-Cross wrote:


GBC> On the issue of children’s “ontologies” you don’t have to be a Piagetian to know there’s a good deal of theory and data that supports the idea that’ children a least initially ground the “semantics” of what they “know” in action and perception.


RGC> Most of behavior would seem to me to be comprised of Actions and most perceptions identified as Things, or Property-Values of Things.  You also agree that somatic emotions and internal and external situations are involved in control of action and perception in the very first acts of a sentient agent. 



GBC> This developmentally underlies the ability to represent types and tokens, to produce categorical inferences, to combine symbols productively, to represent propositions, to represent abstract concepts etc.


RGC> Yet not a single absolute requirement for an AND or an OR yet> 


This “growing body” of knowledge is summarized, for example, in

Pecher, D., & Zwaan, R. A. (Eds.). (2005). Grounding cognition:

The role of perception and action in memory, language, and thinking.

Cambridge, England: Cambridge University Press.


Of course, typical computer systems aren't grounded like this at all and don't develop as children do through interacting with the world

in an embodied way.


Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.



SOCoP Executive Secretary

Knowledge Strategies

Potomac, MD



From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of FERENC KOVACS [f.kovacs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:47 AM

To: sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx; [ontolog-forum]

Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Semantic Systems


JS: What I would say, however, is that I wish I could design a computer

system that could do that.

FK: I may sound a little cheeky, but then the furst thing to do is to forget

the digital computers today,e specially the PCs and their operating system.


The principles of building up a digital system to represent larger chunks of

data (any in man  media other than printed circuits) are known, all you need

to do is find out how sematic analysis works (I assume that I am getting

there :-)) . The maths involved is zero, because a computer does not compute

anything it is a translating machine...

Cheers Frank


----- Original Message -----

From: "John F. Sowa" <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx>

To: "Rich Cooper" <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "'[ontolog-forum] '"

<ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx>

Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:55 AM

Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Semantic Systems



> Rich and Frank,


> RC> ... is this a misspelling and you meant IS NOT?


> I'm sorry.  I meant to type "no" and I accidentally hit an

> extra "w".  Following is what I had intended to write:


> JFS>> In any case, a child can learn language far better and

>>> faster than any computer system today, and there is no

>>> evidence that the child has much, if any built-in ontology.


> FK> I am not sure if that knowledge in a kid is an ontology of

>> any kind created today on the current knowledge of humankind.


> I agree.  It would be misleading to call it 'ontology'.


> FK> We always forget that knowledge is also procedural, and it

>> is in that form what we are all after...


> I agree.  But children do use metalevel language about language

> quite early.  For example, see the following quotation from a

> 3-year-old child named Laura:


>   "When I was a little girl, I could go 'geek geek' like that.

>   But now I can go, 'This is a chair.' "


> Somehow, Laura has learned a lot in those three years, but I

> would hesitate to overanalyze or overclassify it.


> What I would say, however, is that I wish I could design a

> computer system that could do that.


> John


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