Re: [ontolog-forum] Incompatibilities in 3D to 4D

[paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx]

Patrick
thanks for the detailed and pretty complex explanation

would it be wrong to simplify the assertion as



1. space and time are correlated, space does not exist without time, meaning that a 3d is a subset of a 4d


thanks P

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Patrick Cassidy <pat@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ali,

  Rather than point to a long thread, I will summarize:  The incompatibilities of 3D and 4D arise solely at the philosophical level.  Perdurantists don't believe that 3D objects exist; endurantists don't believe that 4D objects exist.  These are contradictory **belief systems**.  But when one wants to make an assertion about an object's properties, it can be done equivalently in either form and translated accurately to the other form.  Pat Hayes has one way of executing the translations, I have a different way.  My own preferred way for the simple case of translating assertions about  properties of an object is, to wit:

 

Assume

   {Obj123 isanInstanceOf Object3D}

   {Obj456 isanInstanceOf Object4D}

   {Obj456-200901-200902 isaTimeSliceOf Obj456}

   {Obj456-200901-200902 beginsOn Date20090101}

   {Obj456-200901-200902 endsOn Date20090201}

 

And also assume a bridging relation between the two views of that object:

  { Obj123 isThe3DcorrelateOf Obj456}

 

Now given the above, an assertion about that object in 4D  "Time slice Obj456-200901-200902 of Obj456 is Red"

    {Obj456-200901-200902 hasAttributeValue Red}

 Is equivalent to an analogous assertion in 3D "Obj123 was Red from Date20090101 to Date20090201"

    {Obj123 hasAttributeValue Red from Date20090101 to Date20090201}

 

Or, in general, given the assumptions:

 (ó

(?rel Obj456-200901-200902 @args)

(?rel Obj123 @args from Date20090101 to Date20090201))

 

In summary, models that are incompatible on the philosophical level can be represented as different *theories*, but when practical assertions about real-world things are made in the *notation* adopted by either camp, those assertions can be translated accurately into equivalent assertions, having the same meaning, in the notation of the other camp.  Having different philosophies about the fundamental nature of the universe doesn't mean that we can't *understand* each other when we talk about the universe.  Whenever there are different preferred representations, the task of the FO will be to provide the translations that allow assertions from one viewpoint to the other.

 

Pat

 

Patrick Cassidy

MICRA, Inc.

908-561-3416

cell: 908-565-4053

cassidy@xxxxxxxxx

 

From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ali Hashemi
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 8:24 AM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: [ontolog-forum] Incompatibilities in 3D to 4D

 

Hello again,

 

Can someone point me to discussion / papers which outline the irreconcilable(?) differences between these two paradigms.

 

My (semi)naive impression is that each approach considers a set of information as a given, while another requires that it be explicated. It seems like a relatively straightforward affair to keep track of what is needed to facilitate adequate, two-way translation between each approach.

 

Am i missing something? Why is this such a thorn? Where do the problems arise?

 

Cheers,

 

Ali

--
(•`'·.¸(`'·.¸(•)¸.·'´)¸.·'´•) .,.,

_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 

-- 
Paola Di Maio, 
****************************************
Forthcoming
IEEE/DEST 09 Collective Intelligence Track (deadline extended)

i-Semantics 2009, 2 - 4 September 2009, Graz, Austria. www.i-semantics.tugraz.at

SEMAPRO 2009, Malta
http://www.iaria.org/conferences2009/CfPSEMAPRO09.html
**************************************************
Mae Fah Luang Child Protection Project, Chiang Rai Thailand



_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/  
Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/  
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ 
To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    (01)