Re: [ontolog-forum] Incompatibilities in 3D to 4D

[Ali Hashemi <ali.hashemi+ontolog@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

I will write a more comprehensive email outlining my take on this next week (after having gone through the dozen or so papers i've now collected.)

My immediate impressions are however, that this is largely a philosophical issue which would bleed over into business / engineering only if people insist that their representations are uniquely correct in reflecting reality. I have difficulty understanding such a point of view, since (in ontologies) any and all of our mutually accessible and articulable intuitions about the word are necessarily mediated through some language. Seemingly, said language would allow different ways of expressing the same idea, or different parts of the same ideas. 

I can live with the fact that one person ascribes to a 4-D world, while another finds a 3-D world to be useful in reasoning about some domain from some perspective. The key is to get at the stances which inform the perspectives and to then generate useful mapping axioms. Easier said than done? :P

Anyhow, that's all for now.

Cheers,

Ali

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Feb 21, 2009, at 7:23 AM, Ali Hashemi wrote:

Hello again,

Can someone point me to discussion / papers which outline the irreconcilable(?) differences between these two paradigms.

Some years ago, Adam Pease edited a long series of email debates on this issue into a semi-readable form. I archived the result, which is available here:

http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes/Endurantism&PerdurantismDebate2002.pdf

It may be amusing reading for some readers.

My (semi)naive impression is that each approach considers a set of information as a given, while another requires that it be explicated.

Not sure if I follow what you are saying, but I don't think it is this simple. 

It seems like a relatively straightforward affair to keep track of what is needed to facilitate adequate, two-way translation between each approach.

Strictly speaking, one is more general than the other; but ignoring this detail, yes of course one can formally translate between them. At a purely formal level, the entire debate can be summarized as being about where to put the time parameter: as a relational argument or as a parameter on individuals.  But the thorn, as you put it, is ontological: it is that for each participant, the translation into the other ontology introduces entities which they believe to be impossible, or incoherent, or unintuitive, or otherwise not suitable for human use in public. 

Pat

Am i missing something? Why is this such a thorn? Where do the problems arise?

Cheers,

Ali

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