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Re: [ontolog-forum] Is there something I missed?

To: <edbark@xxxxxxxx>, "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "FERENC KOVACS" <f.kovacs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:30:27 -0000
Message-id: <A2BCCA47B34146CF91CAF4BFB086EBFE@Swindon>

Well said
Thanks
Frank
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Barkmeyer
> Sent: 30 January 2009 19:59
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Is there something I missed?
> 
> Mike Bergman wrote:
> 
> > IMO stuff here recently is getting seriously untracked.  Is this
> > the [ontolog-forum], the [sophistry-forum], the
> > [arrogance-forum], the [put-down-forum] or the [do-nothing-forum]?
> 
> It is most assuredly the [arrogance-forum], as this exchange alone
> demonstrates. ;-) Chris Welty's posting simply allowed a temporary
> release of accumulated steam pressure.  The engine itself remains on
> whatever track it was on.  But I myself argued that it is the
> [do-nothing-forum]; I don't know whether the track leads to anywhere.
> 
> > I appreciate sitting at the feet of the masters, but it is
> > tiresome to be subjected to re-treaded and tiresome tirades.
> 
> And I daresay the masters have a similar view of the pupils.  As I
> sometimes teacher, I can say that it is great to deal with enquiring
> minds and nurse them through complex areas, but quite tiresome to deal
> repeatedly with the misconceptions of aggressive "bookful blockheads,
> ignorantly read".  But when I am teaching, I can't let them mislead
> others.
> 
> >  How about constant ad hominem attacks on Cyc, OWL,
> > semWeb, RDF, you name it?  Is self-interest only a direct
> > relationship with ownership or authorship?
> 
> I wasn't aware that critiques of Cyc, OWL, etc., were "attacks".
> If one is apostolic about those works, one may see them as "attacks",
> and one may somehow see them as "ad hominem", when in fact the critique
> is "ad rem".  But correct identification of deficiencies in a design or
> in its ability to solve the target problem is just honesty in
> engineering.  It is generally viewed as good engineering practice to
> consider cost effectiveness and to document limitations.
> 
> I strongly believe that the knowledge engineering/ontology community
> generally has many more and different concerns from the stated intent of
> the Semantic Web.  SemWeb is about creating and using knowledge models
> to mark up documents (and other resources) in order to improve
> information searches.  Most prior knowledge engineering was aimed at
> facilitating decision-making by automated means.  Those are different
> ideas, and there is only some overlap in the requirements on the
> underlying technologies.  In Mike's own terms, "trusting our business to
> <a knowledge engineering activity>" is NOT a SemWeb concern.  So we
> might find it useful to sort some of this out, lest we become Pope's
> "bookful blockheads" in our own right.
> 
> <tiresome tirade>
> The fact that the search for funding for active research causes certain
> persons to paint their work "Semantic Web technology" confuses more than
> the funding sources, and begets some off-base critiques.  It is an
> inherent property of buzzword-based funding, and as long as ignorant
> managers continue to do that, the behavior will repeat.
> </tiresome tirade>
> 
> > My goodness; where has grace and humility gone?
> 
> Psychological studies have shown that forms of encounter that eliminate
> direct personal confrontation (such as email exploders) make it easier
> for people to cast off socially supportive behaviors, like grace and
> humility.  The times they are a-changin', and not always for the better.
> 
> -Ed
> 
> P.S. I apologize to anyone who has been annoyed by any of my tiresome
> tirades.
> 
> --
> Edward J. Barkmeyer                        Email: edbark@xxxxxxxx
> National Institute of Standards & Technology
> Manufacturing Systems Integration Division
> 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263                Tel: +1 301-975-3528
> Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8263                FAX: +1 301-975-4694
> 
> "The opinions expressed above do not reflect consensus of NIST,
>   and have not been reviewed by any Government authority."
> 
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