Hi Azamat
this argument began by defending the proper and legitimate usage of the _expression_ 'concepts' and related terms to the discourse, and why some of us (glad I am not alone) would be very uncomfortable without it. and why some of us have a problem with it etc
Just reading this nice article that centers on conceptualization, see par 2
http://www.loa-cnr.it/Guizzardi/FAIA.pdf
What i question is the
established view that the computing machines are not able to compass any
semantics, since they handle only physical signals instead of constructs. And
that a human being, a coder, programmer, or ontologist, should interpret
the signals, by assigning the senses to the coded information; and that no
human beings, no constructs; no constructs, no meanings; no meanings,
no knowledge systems.
After all, true meanings or significances are objective things,
characterized by their objective laws, principles, rules, or
constraints.
Yes, but such 'objectivity' needs to be represented and expressed, and before that happens, a lot of abstract process goes on
p
I
The task of real ontology and general semantics to nail down
the objective nature of meaning as well as the universal patterns of
signification, to be represented by semantic machines.
Regards,
Azamat Abdoullaev
EIS Intelligent Systems LTD
Paphos, CYPRUS
Moscow, RUSSIA
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] to concept
or not to concept,is this a question?
I just realized that Paola expressed essentially the same idea as
what I just sent about Azamat's thoughts.
Azamat,
thanks. I do not disagree with anything below. The
correct use of concepts, and derived terms, is indeed in the mind, not in
the machine, obviously.
However for humans to formalize the
'sensible signs' that you refer to, conceptualization
of thoughts in
their mind is a necessary step.
In fact, before humans can produce
something that machine can use, a lot of conceptualization get scrapped
(iterations)
Eventually, after refinement, concepts take a shape that
can be consistently expressed and
via diagrams, notation.
languages, etc
What the machine will interpret, has to be first processed
in the human mind
And concepts are a device for that processing to take
place, imho...
PDM
On 6/15/07, Azamat
Abdoullaev <abdoul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Paola,
Try
to explain your concerns in a more systematic way. Knowledge systems,
as
semantic web applications, thinking machines, etc., are all designed
to be
using ''sensible'' signs (physical signals, codes, or words) in
order to
process and communicate information about things, processes,
facts, rules,
laws, feelings, ideas, thoughts, or
concepts.
Unlike the human brain, in the intelligent machines the
symbolic codes
signify things directly without the agency of concepts,
constructs, notions,
categories or abstractions. This means that the
nature of mechanical meaning
is dependent on the types of symbols and
the kinds of things these symbols
denote (symbolize, stand for or name)
or represent. And that knowledge
machines are devoid of mental
experience or meaningful mental constructs.
The symbols processed
by the mechanical intelligence are the signs of
entities and hence they
get their significance without the mediation of the
conceptions of human intellect ( note, the signification, not meaning;
for
the symbol signifies, via denotation and representation, while the
construct
means, via sense and reference). That is why the significance
of symbols is
rather to come directly from the real objects denoted
and their
relationships connoted, thus leaving off all the conceptual
troubles
discommoding human beings.
With best
regards,
Azamat
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Paola Di Maio *****
School of Information Technology
Mae Fah Luang University
Chiang Rai - Thailand
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