Having followed this conversation for a few days, and having followed up on
many of the recommended viewpoints and references, I can now see that I was
making my original assertion concerning models based on what John Sowa
quotes Petri as claiming in his #1 definition. The other definitions
(Petri's offered examples, as well as others) are all equally valid, and
unfortunately, have some claim on the attention space of our overall area
of conversation here. The best we can do, in my opinion, is to attempt to
be clear in the future as to what sense we are using words such as "model"
which have very well defined, but distinct, meanings from different
perspectives. (01)
In short, I am seconding Pat Hayes' recommendation below that we are best
to leave it at, Model means different (valid) things to different people. (02)
Chuck (03)
Charles Turnitsa
Project Scientist
Virginia Modeling, Analysis & Simulation Center
Old Dominion University Research Foundation
(757) 638-6315 (voice)
cturnits@xxxxxxx (04)
Pat Hayes
<phayes@xxxxxxx>
Sent by: To
ontolog-forum-bou "John F. Sowa" <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx>
nces@xxxxxxxxxxxx cc
.net "[ontolog-forum]"
<ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject
02/09/07 01:26 PM Re: [ontolog-forum] Logic, Datalog
and SQL (05)
Please respond to
"[ontolog-forum]
"
<ontolog-forum@on
tolog.cim3.net> (06)
>Pat,
>
>I'd rather not stir up more debate on this topic, but I
>would like to say that one can make a good case for the
>claim that there is general notion of model that includes
>both as special cases.
>
> > Oh, sure. But here you are using "model" in what I
> > called the model-2 sense, right, rather than the Tarskian
> > sense used in "model theory". Then this becomes the
> > Korzybskian slogan that the map is not the territory:
> > which is true, of course.
>
>In my 1984 book, I mentioned with approval an observation by
>Carl Adam Petri, of Petri-net fame. At the end of this note
>is a copy of the passage in which I summarize Petri's point.
>
>I still believe there is an important core meaning of _model_
>that is common to these uses of the word, to the term "mental
>model", and to the Craik-Minsky notion of the brain as a
>machine for building models. (07)
Ah, this may be the root of our longstanding
difference of opinion here. I think (as I said in
an email response a few days ago) that the usages
of "model" in "model theory" and "modelling"
(respectively realization and prototype) are at
best unrelated, and at worst almost directly
opposite in meaning. The trouble is that if you
analyze the way that simulations work, they are
often (usually) symbolic structures built of
software. That is, the simulation-model consists
of symbols. If you now apply Tarskian semantics
to those symbolic structures, the Tarskian sense
of 'model' - the realization-model - treats the
first, simulation, model as the axioms and the
world it describes as being a realization of it.
This makes the world be the realization of the
simulation, and now our wires are irremediably
crossed. But I really think this is just a matter
of crossed terminology, rather than anything
deeper. (08)
So I would urge that Petri got this wrong. There
isn't a common basis here (well, there might be
between 1 and 3, but not including 2); there is
instead a regrettable but not uncommon clash
between two different technical usages from
different fields. (09)
But let us agree, both having re-stated our views
resoundingly, to not stir up any further debate
on this, lest everyone except us leave the
mailing list :-) (010)
Pat (011)
>
>John
>_______________________________________________________________
>
> From J. F. Sowa (1984) _Conceptual Structures_, Addison-Wesley,
>Reading, MA, p. 20:
>
>The word _model_ has multiple meanings in engineering, logic, and common
>speech. Petri (1977) noted three different meanings in the phrases model
>of an airplane, model of an axiom system, and model farm:
>
> * Simulation. A model airplane is a simplified system that
>simulates some significant characteristics of some other system in the
>real world or a possible world.
>
> * Realization. A model for a set of axioms is a data structure for
>which those axioms are true. Consistent axioms may have many different
>models, but inconsistent axioms have no model.
>
> * Prototype. A model farm is an ideal or standard for evaluating
>other less perfect farms or for designing new ones.
>
>Petri maintained that a common basis should be found for these three
>different ways of modeling.
>
>Citation:
>
>Petri, Carl Adam (1977) "Modelling as a communication discipline,"
>in H. Beilner & E. Gelenbe, eds., _Meaning, Modelling, and
>Evaluating Computer Systems_, North-Holland Publishing Co.,
>Amsterdam, pp. 435-449.
>
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