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Re: [uom-ontology-std] What is mass?

To: uom-ontology-std <uom-ontology-std@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Matthew West" <dr.matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx>
From: Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 21:58:52 -0500
Message-id: <306AECB4-CDF0-485D-BA49-16D858343CC0@xxxxxxx>

On Oct 2, 2009, at 2:40 AM, Matthew West wrote:    (01)

> Dear Gunther,
>
>> Matthew West wrote:
>>> Dear Ingvar,
>>>
>>> This sounds like an interesting challenge.
>>>
>>>> I am as aware of the contents of VIM as of the SI brochure, and
>>>> your
>>>> "n.b." makes exactly my point. What you might call "newton-meter
>> as
>>>> a unit
>>>> alone", I prefer to call "nominal newton-meter". However, note
>> that
>>>> only
>>>> some units can be called nominal units and tied to more than one
>>>> kind-of-quantity; many units are unambiguously tied only to one
>>>> kind-of-quantity.
>>>
>>> Could you give me a unit (or two) that you think only applies to
>> one
>>> kind-of-quantity, and I'll see if I can identify another?
>>>
>>> Engineering is full of things like Maximum Allowable Working
>>> Temperature, which is certainly not a temperature (try measuring
>> it with
>>> a thermometer).
>>
>>
>> Why is maximum allowable temperature not a temperature? Just
>> because
>> it isn't realized? It is a temperature specification. It is a
>> quantity
>> even if it doesn't exist anywhere at any particular moment in time.
>>
>> But of course that is another issue and I still agree that a
>> maximum
>> allowable temperature of this machine can not be well compared with
>> the water temperature of my pool -- but then they can if the
>> machine
>> is meant to go into my pool (which I don't have)
>
> MW: For maximum allowable working temperature to be a type of
> temperature you would have to be able to say which temperatures were
> maximum allowable ones and which  were just ordinary temperatures.    (02)

No, you wouldn't. Analogy: Q: which heights are maximum heights? A:  
any height that is specified to be a maximum height is a maximum  
height. Q: But which heights can *possibly* be a maximum height? A:  
Any height *could* be a maximum height. (Possible exception: zero.)    (03)

> I
> don't think that makes sense.    (04)

It makes no sense because the question is senseless.    (05)

Pat    (06)

> What makes more sense is that maximum
> allowable working temperature is a kind of property that makes  
> reference
> to a particular temperature.
>
> Regards
>
> Matthew West
> Information  Junction
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>
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>
>
>>
>> -Gunther
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.
>> gschadow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Associate Professor           Indiana University School of
>> Informatics
>> Regenstrief Institute, Inc.      Indiana University School of
>> Medicine
>> tel:1(317)423-5521
>> http://aurora.regenstrief.org
>>
>>
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>    (07)

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