On Oct 2, 2009, at 2:40 AM, Matthew West wrote: (01)
> Dear Pat,
>
>>> Matthew West wrote:
>>>> Dear Ingvar,
>>>>
>>>> This sounds like an interesting challenge.
>>>>
>>>>> I am as aware of the contents of VIM as of the SI brochure, and
>>>>> your
>>>>> "n.b." makes exactly my point. What you might call "newton-
>> meter as
>>>>> a unit
>>>>> alone", I prefer to call "nominal newton-meter". However, note
>> that
>>>>> only
>>>>> some units can be called nominal units and tied to more than
>> one
>>>>> kind-of-quantity; many units are unambiguously tied only to one
>>>>> kind-of-quantity.
>>>>
>>>> Could you give me a unit (or two) that you think only applies to
>> one
>>>> kind-of-quantity, and I'll see if I can identify another?
>>>>
>>>> Engineering is full of things like Maximum Allowable Working
>>>> Temperature, which is certainly not a temperature (try measuring
>> it
>>>> with
>>>> a thermometer).
>>>
>>>
>>> Why is maximum allowable temperature not a temperature?
>>
>> It is a temperature.
>
> MW: Then tell me which temperatures are the maximum allowable ones? (02)
? How should I know? You will have to look at the relevant spec. If it
says that the MAT is 1200 degrees Kelvin, then 1200 degrees Kelvin is
the maximum allowable temperature. And 1200 degrees Kelvin is a
temperature. (This is so obvious, I must be missing your point.)
>
>> But its not the temperature OF anything (we
>> hope,
>> if things are working right.) That is, there is nothing which has
>> that
>> temperature. In Matthew's overarching ontological framework, that
>> might mean it doesn't exist (? Matthew, sorry if I get this wrong.)
>
> MW: There is a possible world in which there is something that has
> that
> temperature. (03)
Ah, OK, if you allow possible words then no problem. (Interesting
move, for a nominalist, but lets have that discussion in another
thread :-) (04)
>>
>>> Just because
>>> it isn't realized? It is a temperature specification. It is a
>> quantity
>>> even if it doesn't exist anywhere at any particular moment in
>> time.
>>
>> I tend to agree. Quantities (as opposed to things that have them)
>> should probably be viewed in a Platonic light in any case, like
>> numbers, so they don't actually have places and moments to exist
>> in.
>> Even for the most case-hardened nominalists (among which I count
>> myself), it isn't practical to try to get along without some
>> abstractions in the universe of discourse.
>
> MW: Yes I agree it is a quantity, but it is not an instance of
> temperature. It is a quantity that makes a reference to an instance of
> temperature. (05)
?! Of COURSE it is a temperature. That is why people call it a maximum
allowable *temperature*. It is a point on the temperature scale, and
that is what a temperature is. 1200 degrees Kelvin (for example) is a
temperature. It might not be the temperature OF anything, but that
doesn't stop it being a temperature. (06)
Pat (07)
>
> Regards
>
> Matthew West
> Information Junction
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>
>>
>> Pat H.
>>
>>>
>>> But of course that is another issue and I still agree that a
>> maximum
>>> allowable temperature of this machine can not be well compared
>> with
>>> the water temperature of my pool -- but then they can if the
>> machine
>>> is meant to go into my pool (which I don't have)
>>>
>>> -Gunther
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.
>> gschadow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Associate Professor Indiana University School of
>> Informatics
>>> Regenstrief Institute, Inc. Indiana University School of
>> Medicine
>>> tel:1(317)423-5521
>> http://aurora.regenstrief.org
>>>
>>>
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