Dear Peter, (01)
> Couple of points catching up on the last day's posts after travelling:
>
> - Matthew: Why throw "categories" into the pot? I'm not sure
> how "apple", "shop" and "customer" can fit as concepts
> (sorry, but we're running out of terms (including this one)
> for this meta-discussion) in your definition - they aren't
> "categories" in any sense, and certainly not relationships or
> rules, but I would argue the three "things" are nonetheless
> an ontology, albeit of very limited expressiveness... (02)
MW: Well apples would be categories in the sense I was intending.
I was just picking one of several terms at random that can usually
be considered synonyms. Class, type, category. I don't mind. However,
I like Barry's suggestion of entity, and I also like the definition
the Chris P found.
>
> - "it excludes the informal (non computer interpretable)
> ontologies that were written in English that the draft
> document seemed to be wanting to include"... I'm not sure I
> want to have to cope with the implications of opening the
> floodgates potentially to all Chomskian transformational
> grammar - we're having a hard enough time with formal
> ontologies aren't we?! (03)
MW: Well it is in the draft. I think it is perfectly reasonable
to describe an ontology in natural language - even necessary for
some purposes, like communicating to non-logicians.
>
> - I do like Chris Partridge's comment about making a
> distinction between Ontology and ontology (-ies): this could
> indeed take some of the heat out of what seem to be exchanges
> between two approaches.... (04)
MW: Yes. I always had in mind that there were these two senses.
I assumed we were just discussing small "o".
>
> - I do think we need to reserve a few keywords for our
> meta-discussion if we are to be able to continue to function
> as debating beings for this Summit! I'm starting to mangle
> "thing", "term", "concept" to express the "...?"'s we're
> talking about... or am I defying Gödel's incompleteness theorem? (05)
MW: Well I think we are slowly making progress.
>
>
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
> Sent: 21 April 2007 04:32
> To: ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Ontology Framework Draft
> StatementfortheOntology Summit
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> > Its almost good enough... But an ontology is more than just
> > about terms.
> >
> > How about:
> >
> > "a formal description of terms that represent concepts and
> > relationships in as
> > chosen subject matter of interest"
>
> This first rather assumes something lexical in nature, and would
> not include, say a concept system where concepts were identified
> by integers (with possibly multiple names) rather than the terms
> you tend to see in e.g. KIF ontologies.
>
> Secondly it excludes the informal (non computer interpretable)
> ontologies that were written in English that the draft document
> seemed to be wanting to include.
>
> Thirdly, this would seem to force different representations
> (say OWL or CLIF) of the same assertions to be different ontologies
> because it says "a formal description of..." not what the formal
> description is of.
>
> I will suggest as an alternative.
>
> "categories, relationships and rules of a domain"
>
> Regards
>
> Matthew West
> Reference Data Architecture and Standards Manager
> Shell International Petroleum Company Limited
> Registered in England and Wales
> Registered number: 621148
> Registered office: Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Mobile: +44 7796 336538
> Email: matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
> http://www.shell.com
> http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/
>
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========================
> > Michael Uschold
> > M&CT, Phantom Works
> > 425 373-2845
> > michael.f.uschold@xxxxxxxxxx
> > ==========================
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > COOL TIP: to skip the phone menu tree and get a human on
> the phone, go
> > to: http://gethuman.com/tips.html
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter F Brown [mailto:peter@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 3:08 PM
> > To: Ontology Summit 2007 Forum
> > Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Ontology Framework Draft
> Statement for
> > theOntology Summit
> >
> > I agree: we've worked with the definition "a formal descriptions of
> > terms and the relationships between them" [1] as being good
> enough to
> > know what we talking about when we're talking about what
> we're talking
> > about...and "good enough" should be good enough.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > [1] From 'OASIS Reference Model for Service-Oriented
> > Architecture', p17,
> > see
> >
> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/19679/soa-rm-cs.pdf
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
> > Welty
> > Sent: 19 April 2007 20:23
> > To: Ontology Summit 2007 Forum
> > Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Ontology Framework Draft
> Statement for
> > the Ontology Summit
> >
> >
> > Surely after 15 years we can do better than "specification of a
> > conceptualization"? Isn't it time we put that one to rest?
> >
> > -Chris
> >
> > Obrst, Leo J. wrote:
> > > All,
> > >
> > > Here is our draft statement about the Ontology Framework.
> We invite
> > > you to consider and discuss this -- now and in next week's
> > sessions.
> > > We intend this to be an inclusive characterization of what
> > an ontology
> >
> > > is. Inclusive: meaning that we invite you to consider
> where you and
> > > your community is with respect to these dimensions. If you have
> > > concerns or issues, restatements or elaborations, please
> > let us know
> > > now and next week. This will shortly be posted on the
> Framework Wiki
> > page:
> > >
> > http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2007_Fra
> > meworksFor
> > Consideration.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks much,
> > >
> > > Tom Gruber, Michael Gruninger, Pat Hayes, Deborah McGuinness, Leo
> > > Obrst
> > >
> > > _____________________________________________
> > > Dr. Leo Obrst The MITRE Corporation, Information Semantics
> > > lobrst@xxxxxxxxx Center for Innovative Computing & Informatics
> > > Voice: 703-983-6770 7515 Colshire Drive, M/S H305
> > > Fax: 703-983-1379 McLean, VA 22102-7508, USA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > --
> > >
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> --
> Dr. Christopher A. Welty IBM Watson Research Center
> +1.914.784.7055 19 Skyline Dr.
> cawelty@xxxxxxxxx Hawthorne, NY 10532
> http://www.research.ibm.com/people/w/welty
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> (06)
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