AI will not succeed because 75% of the AI folks think they only have to hack
systems, and then we'll have AI. My system beats your system. Mine demonstrates
intelligence; yours fails. Ha ha. Science: fuggedaboutit. Engineering: +1.
(01)
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
>bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rich Cooper
>Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2014 6:19 PM
>To: '[ontolog-forum] '
>Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Marvin Minsky's original memo on frames
>
>JFS>>>Minsky's closing paragraph:
>>>
>>>> I cannot state strongly enough my conviction that the preoccupation with
>>>> Consistency, so valuable for Mathematical Logic, has been incredibly
>>>> destructive to those working on models of mind. At the popular level it
>>>> has produced a weird conception of the potential capabilities of machines
>>>> in general. At the "logical" level it has blocked efforts to represent
>>>> ordinary knowledge, by presenting an unreachable image of a corpus of
>>>> context-free "truths" that can stand separately by themselves. This
>>>> obsession has kept us from seeing that thinking begins with defective
>>>> networks that are slowly (if ever) refined and updated.
>
>I.e., logic is useful, but not a panacea, for implementing AI.
>
>-Rich
>
>Sincerely,
>Rich Cooper
>EnglishLogicKernel.com
>Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
>9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
>bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Whitten
>Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2014 12:40 PM
>To: [ontolog-forum]
>Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Marvin Minsky's original memo on frames
>
>Since Scott Fahlman is still living, and a professor at CMU (according
>to Wikipedia) perhaps we can get him to weigh in to how his thoughts
>about his original ideas have changed over the years.
>
>David Whitten
>
>On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Obrst, Leo J. <lobrst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> This original definition of Fahlman's seems nearly equivalent (isomorphic?)
>to
>production rules in expert systems, perhaps with the agenda built-in
>(depending on how you define "available for access at once"), no?
>>
>> By the way, I really liked Fahlman's NETL, back in the day.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Leo
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
>>>bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John F Sowa
>>>Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2014 11:59 AM
>>>To: [ontolog-forum]
>>>Subject: [ontolog-forum] Marvin Minsky's original memo on frames
>>>
>>>As Pat Hayes observed, this forum has been rehashing many ideas that
>>>have been kicked around in AI and related fields for a long time. One
>>>of the "oldies but goodies" is the term 'frame', which is now used for
>>>a very watered-down version of a much more complex and richer notion
>>>that Marvin Minsky presented in his famous AI Memo of 1974.
>>>
>>>Most people who talk about frames don't realize that the original
>>>definition was introduced in an unpublished essay by Scott Fahlman,
>>>who was a graduate student at MIT at the time. Minsky adopted that
>>>word and quoted a large excerpt from Fahlman's essay. He also
>>>quoted and related many other sources in AI and cognitive science.
>>>
>>>I recently happened to re-read that memo, and I was impressed by its
>>>relevance to the issues discussed in Ontolog Forum. That 40-year-old
>>>memo is still a good summary of many research problems today. See
>>>the URL and excerpts below.
>>>
>>>And by the way, Fahlman's most successful ;-) innovation was the
>>>sideways smiley face: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~sef/sefSmiley.htm
>>>
>>>John
>>>_______________________________________________________________
>__
>>>____
>>>
>>>Source: http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/papers/Frames/frames.html
>>>
>>>Fahlman's original definition, quoted by Minsky:
>>>
>>>> Frame Verification: I envision a data base in which related sets
>>>> of facts and demons are grouped into packets, any number of which
>>>> can be activated or made available for access at once. A packet can
>>>> contain any number of other packets (recursively), in the sense that
>>>> if the containing packet is activated, the contained packets are
>>>> activated as well, and any data items in them become available unless
>>>> they are specifically modified or canceled. Thus, by activating a few
>>>> appropriate packets, the system can create a tailor-made execution
>>>> environment containing only the relevant portion of its global
>>>> knowledge and an appropriate set of demons. Sometimes, of course,
>>>> it will have to add specific new packets to the active set in order
>>>> to deal with some special situation, but this inconvenience will be
>>>> far less than the burden of constantly tripping over unwanted
>>>> knowledge or triggering spurious demons.
>>>
>>>Observation by the psychologist Max Wertheimer, quoted by Minsky:
>>>
>>>> If one tries to describe processes of genuine thinking in terms of
>>>> formal traditional logic, the result is often unsatisfactory; one has,
>>>> then, a series of correct operations, but the sense of the process and
>>>> what was vital, forceful, creative in it seems somehow to have evaporated
>>>> in the formulations.
>>>
>>>Minsky's opening paragraph:
>>>
>>>> It seems to me that the ingredients of most theories both in Artificial
>>>> Intelligence and in Psychology have been on the whole too minute, local,
>>>> and unstructured to account – either practically or phenomenologically
>–
>>>> for the effectiveness of common-sense thought. The "chunks" of reasoning,
>>>> language, memory, and "perception" ought to be larger and more
>structured;
>>>> their factual and procedural contents must be more intimately connected
>>>> in order to explain the apparent power and speed of mental activities.
>>>
>>>Minsky's closing paragraph:
>>>
>>>> I cannot state strongly enough my conviction that the preoccupation with
>>>> Consistency, so valuable for Mathematical Logic, has been incredibly
>>>> destructive to those working on models of mind. At the popular level it
>>>> has produced a weird conception of the potential capabilities of machines
>>>> in general. At the "logical" level it has blocked efforts to represent
>>>> ordinary knowledge, by presenting an unreachable image of a corpus of
>>>> context-free "truths" that can stand separately by themselves. This
>>>> obsession has kept us from seeing that thinking begins with defective
>>>> networks that are slowly (if ever) refined and updated.
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________________________
>__
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>>
>>
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