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Re: [ontolog-forum] Discussion re reasoning about Time and State with RE

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:01:11 -0700
Message-id: <601CCBA5-33A2-4149-B147-49B884C7E973@xxxxxxx>

On Aug 23, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Obrst, Leo J. <lobrst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:    (01)

> John,
> 
> What we try to do is impossible, no? And so, let's just give up, eh?    (02)

I already did, Leo.    (03)

Pat    (04)

> 
> Thanks,
> Leo
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John F Sowa
>> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 9:06 AM
>> To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Discussion re reasoning about Time and State 
>with
>> REST interfaces
>> 
>> Dear Ed and Matthew,
>> 
>> EJB
>>> There is no good model for all problems.
>> 
>> That is the understatement of the year.
>> 
>> I would add that even for a single project -- say designing
>> an airplane, a house, or a computer -- there are a huge number
>> of problems that require different models.  And those models
>> are *rarely, if ever* consistent with one another when you
>> get down to the grubby details of each.
>> 
>> MW
>>> The important thing to take from this is not that it is too
>>> difficult, but that you need to think about how time relates
>>> to the requirements you are trying to meet, and make sure
>>> you have a model that is fit for purpose. A particularly bad
>>> approach is to start with a current state model and then try
>>> to add change, history and time later.
>> 
>> For any particular model, that's true.  But note that even for
>> designing a house (a typical one-family home), there are a large
>> number of different models.  All of them have to be consistent
>> (to a good approximation) with the map drawn up by the surveyor
>> and the blueprints drawn up by the architect.
>> 
>> But all the subcontractors come with their own models (usually
>> mental):  plumbers, electricians, carpenters, landscapers,
>> excavators, etc.  Try discussing identity conditions with them.
>> A blank stare is preferable to some remarks they might make.
>> 
>> Now multiply those issues by thousands, if you're trying to
>> design a Boeing 787 or Airbus 380.  It's no wonder that those
>> projects weren't finished on time and within budget.
>> 
>> By the way, I attended a talk last week about data mining in
>> bioinformatics.  The speaker said that he talked with many of
>> the physicians at a large, modern hospital.  None of them had
>> heard anything about ontology or the related terms that we
>> kick around on this list.
>> 
>> If they happen to choose a formally defined term from a menu,
>> what is the likelihood that their intended use is consistent
>> with the formal definition?
>> 
>> John
>> 
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> 
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>     (05)

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