I wouldn't say a female (an adjective) is a person (noun).
Neither female nor male is a subtype of person.
I argue there are obvious guidelines relating grammatical stuff to
ontology stuff.
For instance, adjective-things are never subtypes of noun-things. (01)
On 2/12/2014 5:28 AM, Matthew West wrote:
> 2. "A female is a person". This is a subtype relation, and should more fully
> be stated "Each female is also a person", or "female is a subtype of
> person". (02)
On 2/12/2014 5:28 AM, Matthew West wrote:
> Dear Patrick,
>
> Up to now I have assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that a "time slice" of
> something refers to a time slice of an individual.
> [MW>] That is correct.
> But "man" and "boy"
> are classes, not individuals, and I need clarification from the experts as
> to whether a "time slice" can really be a class? In what formalism is that
> not possible?
> [MW>] Well individual is also a class, man and boy are just classes whose
> members are timeslices of some person.
>
> If an ontology is to be used in Natural Language Processing (a critical
> application, IMHO), then it should diverge from linguistic usage only where
> necessary. I agree that language has some aspects that do not translate
> well into the logical format of ontologies, but the subclass relation of
> "boy" to "person" seems very well established in ordinary usage, and if any
> ontology formalism cannot represent that relation, I do not see much of a
> future for that formalism.
> [MW>] We say that a man is a person, but this is very ambiguous. There are
> at least three interpretations of "is a" and we usually leave the
> distinguishing pieces out:
>
> 1. "Matthew is a person". This is a classification relation, and should more
> fully be stated "Matthew is an instance of person."
> 2. "A female is a person". This is a subtype relation, and should more fully
> be stated "Each female is also a person", or "female is a subtype of
> person".
> 3. "A boy is a person". This is a temporal part relation and should more
> fully be stated "Each boy is a state (or stage, or part of the life) of a
> person".
>
> One of the problems with language is that we leave out as much context as we
> think we can get away with, and sometimes find we have left out too much.
>
> Regards
>
> Matthew West
> Information Junction
> Mobile: +44 750 3385279
> Skype: dr.matthew.west
> matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>
>
> Pat
>
> Patrick Cassidy
> MICRA Inc.
> cassidy@xxxxxxxxx
> 1-908-561-3416
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of doug foxvog
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:49 PM
> >To: [ontolog-forum]
> >Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Person, Boy, Man > >On Tue, February 11,
> 2014 15:13, Ali H wrote:
> >> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:48 PM, John McClure >>
> <jmcclure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> >
> >>> Take a Person for example, with subclasses Boy and Man.
> >*[MW] The main
> >>>> problem with this is that Boy and Man are not subtypes of person.
> >>>> For Boy and Man to be subtypes of Person, each Boy is a Person, and
>>>>> each Man is a (different) Person.
> >>>> What would be correct is that Boy and Man a subtypes of >>>>
> StateOfPerson, and that each StateOfPerson is a temporalPart of a >>>>
> Person.* > >This is forcing a 4D view on those who don't wish to use it.
> >
> >Instead of claiming one model is (in)correct, it would be nicer to say,
> "In the >4D model, non-rigid classes such as Boy and Man, are not subtypes
> of rigid >classes such as Person. A 4D model would consider Boy and Man to
> be >subtypes of a non-rigid StateOfPerson, and ..."
> >
> >>> To most people, and dictionaries, Boy and Man are subtypes of Person.
> >
> >The relation "subtype" means that any instance of the first thing are
>> instances of the second thing. In 4D a Man or Boy is a time slice of a
>> MalePerson.
> >For
> >someone using 3D(+1) at any time there is an instance of a Man or Boy,
> that >instance is also an instance of Person.
> >
> >>> Second, should a KB contain both a Boy & Man resource about a given
>>>> individual, owl:sameAs would be used to indicate their equivalence >>>
> otherwise, yes, they would be a different person, as they should be.
> >
> >If Man & Boy were defined as disjoint, then nothing could simultaneously
> be >an instance of both. But something could in one context be an instance
> of >one and in another context be an instance of the other.
> >
> >> First, you might want to take a look at the Ontoclean paper [1],[2].
> >> In this view, Boy is not Rigid, and hence not recommended to be >>
> related to a Person via a subtype relationship.
> >
> >All this means is that Ontoclean promotes a 4D view. If this is merely a
>> recommendation it does not require 4D.
> >
> >>> Third, StateofPerson is a wholly artificial term, lacking both >>>
> practical merit and semantic credibility. Fourth, this is a fine >>>
> example of ontologists' implicit saintliness modelling 'concepts' not
>> 'language'.
> >
> >> Secondly, from your posts to this forum, this (the privileging or >>
> equating ontology to language) seems to be a major point of departure >>
> from your perspective and (I suspect) many ontologists on the list.
> >
> >I agree. Language can inform ontologies but they are quite different.
> >
> >If computer ontologies were originated by speakers of a language that
>> differentiates "is currently" from "is necessarily", that distinction would
> be >part of the ontology language. There would be classes which instances
> are >necessarily members of, and classes which instances may be members of
> for >part of their existence (of which subclasses would be necessarily
> >(non)
> >initial, necessarily (non) final, and those which an instance can join and
> leave >multiple times). It would also probably have resulted in three or
> more >subclass/subtype relations: one between rigid classes, one between
> non- >rigid and rigid classes, and one (or more) between non-rigid classes.
> >
> >-- doug
> >
> >> Langauge and
> >> ontology *are not* the same things. While language may contain many >>
> clues as to how ontologically model something, it is only that - a clue.
> >> ...
> >
> >> I suspect the majority of ontologists have come to at least the >>
> following conclusions:
> >>
> >> 1. Ontology != Language
> >> 2. There are serious limits to linguistic clues in building an
> >> ontology ...
> >
> >> Best,
> >> Ali
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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