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Re: [ontolog-forum] Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Rich Cooper <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Obrst, Leo J." <lobrst@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 00:52:16 +0000
Message-id: <FDFBC56B2482EE48850DB651ADF7FEB01E8E6616@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Pat,    (01)

As Simon mentions, this was a quote attributed to Whorf in the SEP at 
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/linguistics/#Who, and it got a bit mangled 
when Rich reported it.    (02)

I think the Whorf or Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (or non-hypothesis) suffers 
greatly. But the above article does tease out some of the usual positions.    (03)

Thanks,
Leo    (04)

>-----Original Message-----
>From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
>bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pat Hayes
>Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:01 PM
>To: Rich Cooper
>Cc: [ontolog-forum]
>Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis
>
>
>On Feb 23, 2013, at 3:39 PM, Rich Cooper wrote:
>
>Simon Spero wrote:
>> the world is presented in a kaleidoscopic flux of impressions which has to
>be organized by our minds-and this means largely by the linguistic systems
>in our minds.
>
>Does it mean that? I find this claim to be highly doubtful, myself. I have, at
>many times in my life, had to think and act while my mental linguistic
>system was not functioning at all, and found that my thinking was
>unimpaired by a temporary (epilepsy-induced) total aphasia. But in any case,
>this idea that thought somehow *is* language seems unlikely on a variety of
>grounds. I know I am not alone in being able to think many thoughts that I
>find it hard to utter in language - in some cases, impossible to do so. Why
>would this be true, if thought simply were language, or if it used the
>"linguistic system" in our minds? Again, I can often time-share thinking and
>language use, for example following a chain of thought while listening to
>spoken instructions or even holding a conversation. And, it is known that
>linguistic functionality is localized to comparatively small areas of the 
>cortex
>(the left temporal and prefronal lobes), so if our minds *are* the linguistic
>system in our minds, what is the rest of this (biologically very expensive)
>neural tissue for?
>
>Does Spero give any evidence for this very strong, and I think extremely
>implausible, claim that it is our mental linguistic system which provides the
>categories for thought?
>
>Pat Hayes
>
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