Thanks for the considered response, Doug. I appreciate that wb:Data differs
from of:Data, but I must confess that I don't "get" what of:Data is, then. My
guess is its roughly the same as what I'd call "information", i.e., the parcel
of meaning interpreted from data or intentionally articulated as data. (01)
> This is a novel property of the term. (02)
I was very surprised that you considered physical-ness a "novel" property of
data - in my everyday use of "data" it seems to be an essential property. (03)
>> Maybe. Words on a page are data; (04)
>These are physical objects -- as are folds, coffee stains, and dust on the
>page. (05)
But there is a big and significant difference between the words and the
folds/stains/dust. The words were intentionally put on the page to represent
some meaning/information. The folds and stains may be intentionally put there
and may convey some meaning (e.g., an author/reader spilled his coffee perhaps
because he was excited by the words he read :-)), but it's different than the
words. The difference is intentionally and a language grammar. (06)
>> In this forum, the "data" we're usually interested in are the
>> sequences and chunks of bits in computing systems. (07)
>Another forum may be interested in sequences of bits. The Ontology Forum has
>shown no such interest, so far as i can tell. (08)
This is another statement that really surprised me. As far as I can tell, most
of the participants in this forum are computer scientists and if they're not
ultimately interested in chunk/sequences of bits and how they're processed then
they are not really practicing their discipline. If this is a philosophy
forum, then that is a different matter altogether - yes, sequences of bits have
no relevance to such discussions. The logical grounding of ontology languages
like OWL is, IMO and understanding, entirely for the purpose of automated
computer processing (e.g., reasoning). You can abstract it away to
mathematics or philosophy, but I would then submit that you're also abstracting
it away from the practical applications I think we're all interested in. (09)
>If it is useful for the Ontology Forum to discuss wb:Data, i would suggest
>using a different term. Are you referring to physical symbols? (010)
Yes and only. (011)
Bill (012)
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-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of doug foxvog
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:23 AM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: [External] Re: [ontolog-forum] What is Data? What is a Datum?
2013-01-09-0930 (019)
On Thu, January 10, 2013 18:29, Burkett, William [USA] wrote:
> I don't chime in much here, but I generally support the position Dan
> Gilman puts forth. Data is something physical and observable (020)
This is a novel property of the term. I suggest using a clearly different term
for such a meaning, to make clear it is a meaning different from what everyone
else here is discussing. I'll refer to it as wb:Data and what the Ontology
Forum has been discussing, of:Data. (021)
If wb:Data is something physical, i physically can not have the same wb:Data on
my machine that William has on his machine (so long as they are two different
physical machines). (022)
> (a point not emphasized in this discussion) and /may/ have meaning
> associated with it. (023)
of:Data is encoded meaning. This is another way that wb:Data is different from
of:Data. (024)
> Consider data collected by radio telescopes ... does it have meaning? (025)
Yes. It means that certain patterns in the electromagnetic spectrum were
recorded by given telescopes at given times. If such data is correlated with
data recording the direction the individual telescopes were pointing at those
times, it MAY be possible to conclude ADDITIONAL information (or meaning), (026)
> Maybe. Words on a page are data; (027)
These are physical objects -- as are folds, coffee stains, and dust on the page. (028)
That the words/folds/stains/dust are located on the page (as well as their
physical features such as size, shape, color, and orientation, may be encoded
as of:Data. If the words are arranged so as to represent sentences, the
(intangible) sentences are of:Data. (029)
> a speech that you listen to at a conference is data. (030)
The physical event may be wb:Data, but it isn't of:Data. It may represent and
be represented by of:Data (031)
> Most importantly, different (physical) data can convey the same
> meaning (information), so you can't equate data/representation with
> meaning. Data is just a means to an end, e.g., the (possible)
> representation of meaning. (032)
> In this forum, the "data" we're usually interested in are the
> sequences and chunks of bits in computing systems. (033)
Another forum may be interested in sequences of bits. The Ontology Forum has
shown no such interest, so far as i can tell. The only relationship that
of:Data has with bits is that any of:Datum can be encoded using bits in an
unlimited number of ways. The Ontology Forum does not deal with issues of
big-endian/small-endian binary numbers, encodings of reals and rationals, or
the use of UNICODE, ASCII, EBCIDIC, or earlier encodings. It does not deal
with issues of physical encodings that are part of wb:Data -- magnetic or
reflective domains, holes in punch cards, q-bits, fonts, etc. (034)
> But the statement above still
> apply: data is physical thing, usually imbued with meaning by our
> articulation and interpretation processes (which may be embodied by
> the software we write.) (035)
Bill, there is a huge difference between wb:Data and of:Data. (036)
If it is useful for the Ontology Forum to discuss wb:Data, i would suggest
using a different term. Are you referring to physical symbols? (037)
-- doug f (038)
> Bill (039)
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