On Tue, January 8, 2013 15:11, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> On 1/8/13 2:23 PM, doug foxvog wrote:
>> A datum is a role played by a proposition, as John Sowa said. A single
>> value is not a datum unless it represents a proposition. (01)
> Sure, but doesn't context determine role in this situation? (02)
It can. Different parts of the proposition can be encoded in different ways
and may have to be collected from different "locations" to assemble the
proposition. (03)
> Of course, said determination might be implicit
> rather than explicit which is ultimately inevitable. (04)
Yes. Which makes it dangerous for various parts of a proposition,
e.g., triples, to be collected across the semantic web divorced from the
context which gives them meaning. (05)
> Thus, when _values_ are in the role of
> representing the description of an observation subject, they denotation
> "Data" applies. (06)
The denotation applies if they are in their context. A table of numeric
values that was extracted from some data set, is not data if it is presented
raw, lacking its context. (07)
> Likewise, if the aforementioned is achieved via a single
> value, then the denotation "Datum" would apply. (08)
Yes, so long as it is connected with its context. (09)
>> Propositions (or data objects) are not restricted to triples (subject /
>> predicate / object, subject / verb / object, entity / attribute /
>> value,
>> entity / key / value, ...). Some propositions naturally require higher
>> arity, e.g., X is 3 meters from Y. (010)
> Sure, but triples are an effective base upon which higher arity can be
> built, right? (011)
In some cases this is more difficult to do than others in a semantically
meaningful way. One could use a LISP philosophy to make any higher-
arity relation into a set of triples by defining the third argument to be
a list, and CDRing down the list -- but attributing semantics to the
progressively smaller lists might not be fruitful. (012)
One way of using triples to express the distance between two objects would
be to reify the pair of objects and use:
(distanceBetweenObjectPair ObjectPairXY (Meters 3))
having defined ObjectPairXY as an ObjectPair with exactly two members,
the distinct things X and Y:
(ObjectPair ObjectPairXY)
(member X ObjectPairXY)
(member Y ObjectPairXY) (013)
>> Propositions represented by subject -
>> predicate - direct object - indirect object in English (Juan gave Xue
>> the book) can be modeled by reifying the action and conjoining multiple
>> ternary propositions, but a single higher-arity proposition can be
>> useful for many purposes. (014)
> Sure, but you always need a building point that provides foundation (be
> permanent or temporary). (015)
I note that databases traditionally encode high arity relations. Very often
a single column does not relate the value in that column for a row to the
thing represented by the key of the row. It takes multiple columns to do
so. (016)
Both the high-arity relation and the data base provide foundations for such
propositions. Arbitrarily restricting a formalism to triples complicates
matters without providing any benefit (except to those wedded to the
triple formalism). (017)
I find arguments for basing semantics on triples to be similar to arguments
for basing arithmetic computations on Peano arithmetic, due to its
providing a foundation for arithmetic. A system based on Peano arithmetic
has no need for a system to encode addition, subtraction, or multiplication,
or their associated tables. Sure, all that can be derived, but the
efficiency
leaves something to be desired, and the clarity of operations (reasoning)
is hidden. I find that the same holds for restricting the encoding of
semantics
to triples. (018)
-- doug f (019)
> Kingsley
>>
>> -- doug
>>
>> On Tue, January 8, 2013 08:13, John F Sowa wrote:
>>> ... The word 'proposition', for example,
>>> is more fundamental than the words 'assertion', 'statement',
>>> 'judgment',
>>> 'assumption', 'belief', 'hypothesis', 'axiom', or 'theorem'.
>>> Therefore,
>>> it is reasonable to say that Proposition is the natural type, and the
>>> other words describe roles that a proposition can play.
>>> The words 'datum' and 'data' most definitely describe roles.
>> On Mon, January 7, 2013 19:29, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>> On 7 January 2013 23:25, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 1/7/13 5:04 PM, Gary Berg-Cross wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> "data object" is much clearer [1] i.e., a resource comprised of
>>>> structured
>>>> data. Typical representation, for a given perception medium (e.g., the
>>>> World Wide Web or paper) is a subject->predicate->object,
>>>> subject->verb->object, entity->attribute->value style of graph
>>>> pictorial
>>>> :-)
>>> I used to talk to people about "predicate / object" and mainly would
>>> get
>>> blank stares.
>>> I tried "attribute / value" which seemed to have *slightly* more
>>> understanding.
>>> I'm adding to my terminology to term "key / value pairs" which I think
>>> may
>>> be effective to some audiences
>>
>>>> Links:
>>>>
>>>> 1. http://bit.ly/PnTJdV -- understanding data objects .
>>>>
>>>> Kingsley
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.
>>>> gbergcross@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GaryBergCross
>>>> Potomac, MD
>>>> 240-426-0770
>>
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>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
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