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Re: [ontolog-forum] [ontology-summit] Estimating number of all known fac

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: William Frank <williamf.frank@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 14:20:33 -0400
Message-id: <CALuUwtDZjrHnLOSLbwaSaA5pt7Rhud-faco+NkY2MFodmFfzxA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Alexander Titov <av_titov@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

That reminds me a poem "Blind Man and the Elephant" by John Godfrey Saxe


We force other people to accept our perceptions stating that our view correctly reflects the "facts" or "state of affairs in the world".

This is about the third time I have seen this forum engage  relativists vs. those who believe that truth is a meaningful concept, indepedent from belief. 

This time, someone early on said:no, surely that won't happen in **this** forum.  But has been proved very wrong.  

I keep wondering why the two groups seem to speak past each other.  I am beginning to think that this is embodied in the above.  sentence.    Especially the word "Force" and "our perceptions."

I think that the relativists are reacting to the naive view of authoritarian people that whatever they happen to believe, whatever is convenient, whatever the historians we like say,whatever basis we choose, such people say is what is true.  Stalin crossing off two zeros on the dollar/ruble exchange rate.  A court ruling that evolution is false. 

I want to point out that the people who believe that truth must be regarded as what really is, so that whatever historians might SAY, whatever governements might say, or whatever anybody else or the entire human race might say, is irrelevant.  There is a what actually happens, 

These people, like me, have of course noticed the same thing about most people insisting on their own beliefs as the relativists have noticed, and have a further reaction to avoid authoritarianism.  In fact, I think, have gone way past that, recognizing that no matter WHAT anyone says, they might be wrong, no matter what they themselves might happen to believe, even strongly, so don't EVER accept an "Authority" or even your own fautly senses as abosolutely correct.   Rather, be humble in the face of reality.   So, they (and I) believe that anyone advocating relatism of truth is ENABLING dictatorship and ignorant acceptance of the convenient, instead of the lifelong, human race-long seeking after a closer approximation to the facts.   to  put it most simply, there is a difference between ANYBODY who says x is true, and the reasons they might say it, and x's actually BEING true.

Everbody here surely knows about the blind men and the elephant.  Some (relativists) take it say, see, everyone who thinks they know the truth about anything is fooling themselves, becasue it depends on your viewpoint.  Others take it to say, see, most people don't factor their own viewpoint in, and so we must be very very careful, much more so than most people are,  about what we choose to believe.

So, let's be careful about the "we" in the above statement.


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