> And if something (in Cyc?) is intangible, does it have spatio-temporal
> location? (01)
If it is a #$SpatialThing-Localized, it has a spatial location and a
temporal location, but a Platonic circle is a spatial thing without a
location, while an agreement has a temporal location but not a
spatial one. (02)
#$Situations, including #$Events are considered to be intangible,
even if they have physical participants and results. (03)
Does an organization, e.g., IBM have a spatial location and extent?
Does it have a physical size, a physical shape, a weight or mass?
It can take an action (through a representative) any place that
representatives is. An organization certainly has a temporal location.
I would suggest that it does not have a physical extent or location.
Its representatives, employees, head office, outlets, manufacturing,
and service facilities all have physical extents and locations. The
location of my property or my representatives do not define my
location -- why should it do so for an organization? (04)
The same analysis holds for the Anglican Church or any of its
suborganizations. I would hold that a bishopric (as an organization
sole) is a suborganization of the church. When the holder of the
office moves around, that shouldn't (imo) mean that the office
moves around. (05)
> E.g. The Bishop of Liverpool was in Manchester yesterday. (06)
This is where ontologies win over natural language. I previously
said that we were discussing three things, an organization sole
(the office of bishop, or bishopric), the person holding that office,
and the situation of that person holding that office (which can be
represented by a relation that holds during some time interval
between the person and the office). The word "bishop" can refer
to any of these inter-related things. (07)
In CycL:
First define your terms:
(isa bishopOf BinaryPredicate)
(arg1Isa bishopOf HumanAdult)
(arg1Isa bishopOf Bishop-Clerical)
(arg2Isa bishopOf Bishopric)
(genlInverse bishopOf hasLeader) (08)
(isa Bishopric ExistingObjectType)
(genls Bishopric ReligiousOrganization)
(genls Bishopric OrganizationSole) (09)
(isa AnglicanBishopric ExistingObjectType)
(genls AnglicanBishopric Bishopric) (010)
(isa Bishop-TheWord EnglishWord)
(singular Bishop-TheWord "bishop")
(denotation Bishop-TheWord Noun 0 Bishopric)
(denotation Bishop-TheWord Noun 1 Bishop-Clerical)
(denotation Bishop-TheWord Noun 2 Bishop-ChessPiece)
(denotation Bishop-TheWord Noun 3 bishopOf)
(compoundString Bishop-TheWord "of" Noun bishopOf)
<other more complex NL assertions> (011)
Then define your data (in a different microtheory):
(holdsDuring
(TimeIntervalBetweenFn (YearFn 1880) Now-Indexical)
(isa BishopricOfLiverpool AnglicanBishopric)) (012)
(compoundString Bishop-TheWord "of Liverpool" Noun
BishopricOfLiverpool ) (013)
(isa JamesStuartJones
(holdsDuring
(TimeIntervalBetweenFn (YearFn 1998) Now-Indexical)
(bishopOf JamesStuartJones BishopricOfLiverpool)) (014)
> Can something intangible do things? If so, is there some physics to
> support this? (015)
An organization does things through its authorized representatives.
An account automatically charges or grants interest even though it
is not physical. (016)
> E.g. The Bishop of Liverpool said Mass in Manchester yesterday. (017)
This English phrase means that the person who held the office of
Bishop of Liverpool yesterday performed a specific role in a specific
type of church service yesterday. After finding a match for
(holdsDuring Yesterday-Indexical
(bishopOf ?SUBJECT BishopricOfLiverpool))
create an instance of #$ChurchService (or #$Mass-Ritual if that
were ontologized), assert for that instance (here called ?MASS)
(temporallySubsumes Yesterday-Indexical ?MASS)
(eventLocation ?MASS (TerritoryFn CityOfManchesterEngland))
(providerOfService ?SUBJECT ?MASS) (018)
FWIW, I would consider an organization to be intangible (see my
discussion of organizations above), but Cyc has not defined it that way.
Cyc is not perfect -- nor am i. (019)
[Oops. I left out ontologizing the situation type of someone holding
the office. But it's late. I'm going to post this anyway. I hope you
get the idea anyway.] (020)
-- doug (021)
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-summit-
>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of doug foxvog
>> Sent: 01 February 2012 07:00
>> To: Ontology Summit 2012 discussion
>> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] System Components
>>
>> >>what happens when the next person gets instantiated as the (same)
> bishop?
>>
>> > Here is one take on it (without mentioning 4D?) The role of bishop of
>> > Liverpool was used by Person A for time-period 100.
>> > That role may be used by Person B for the next time period 101. You
>> > may identify this triple relationship as you wish.
>>
>> We are talking about three things, not two, the corporation sole, the
>> role
> of
>> bishop, and the person who occupies the role of bishop for a given
> bishopric.
>>
>> The Bishopric is an intangible individual (like a corporation) that can
> own
>> property and has been granted authority to perform certain kinds of
>> acts.
>>
>> A Person while performing the role of Bishop, has the derived authority
>> to
>> perform the actions which the Bishopric is permitted. This is the same
>> as
> any
>> other corporate officer being permitted to act in the name of her
> corporation
>> when authorized.
>>
>> -- doug f
>>
>>
>> > Regards,
>> > Gary
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Chris Partridge
>> > <partridgec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> >> It looks like you are describing something similar to a qua object,
>> >> which has no identity.****
>> >>
>> >> Not sure we are talking about the same thing. Bishop in this case is
>> >> a particular bishop, such as the 'Bishop of Liverpool' - a
>> >> corporation sole, a legal person. If we take the approach you
>> >> suggest, what happens when the next person gets instantiated as the
>> >> (same) bishop. In what sense is it the 'same' bishop - the bishop
>> >> continues to own the land, etc.****
>> >>
>> >> Wouldn't Occam's razor prefer a simple agent.****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>
>> >> Regards,****
>> >>
>> >> Chris ****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>
>> >> *From:* ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>> >> ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Gary
>> >> Berg-Cross
>> >> *Sent:* 31 January 2012 21:47
>> >>
>> >> *To:* Ontology Summit 2012 discussion
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [ontology-summit] System Components****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>
>> >> Chris,
>> >>
>> >> Chris noted>I find it odd that a qua object can own property, have
>> >> responsibilities, declare war (Monarchs), etc. - which the person
>> >> cannot do.
>> >>
>> >> Thematic roles may be thought of as a set of types when objects
>> >> participate in processes. There is a general notion of the role, but
>> >> it gets instantiated in an object, such as a person who has a bishop
>> >> role and thus participates in the bishop processes.****
>> >>
>> >> Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D. ****
>> >>
>> >> gbergcross@xxxxxxxxx ****
>> >>
>> >> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GaryBergCross****
>> >>
>> >> NSF INTEROP Project ****
>> >>
>> >> http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0955816
>> ****
>> >>
>> >> SOCoP Executive Secretary****
>> >>
>> >> Knowledge Strategies ****
>> >>
>> >> Potomac, MD****
>> >>
>> >> 240-426-0770****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Chris Partridge <
>> >> partridgec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:****
>> >>
>> >> You will find references to 'bishop' in the article.****
>> >>
>> >> I understand that Nicola and Giancarlo (and others) would regard
>> >> 'bishop'
>> >> as a role, qua object, etc.****
>> >>
>> >> Historically this 'role' was introduced to ensure that legal title to
>> >> property given to the church remained with the bishop (corporation
>> >> sole) rather than inherited by his kin. It was then extended to
>> >> monarchs.****
>> >>
>> >> I find it odd that a qua object can own property, have
>> >> responsibilities, declare war (Monarchs), etc. - which the person
>> >> cannot do.****
>> >>
>> >> I also cannot see how this would work if the corporation sole did not
>> >> have some kind of identity.****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> *From:* ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>> >> ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Jack Ring
>> >> *Sent:* 31 January 2012 13:24****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *To:* Ontology Summit 2012 discussion
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [ontology-summit] System Components****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> I do not find 'role' mentioned in the given URL regarding 'sole'****
>> >>
>> >> Elsewhere in widipedia is "role posits the following about social
>> >> behaviour: #3. Roles are occupied by individuals, who are called
>> >> actors<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actors>
>> >> ."****
>> >>
>> >> Overall It seems that role specifies a location in a coordinate
>> >> system, not an operator such as actor.****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Seems to me that the ****
>> >>
>> >> On Jan 31, 2012, at 1:50 AM, Chris Partridge wrote:****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>
>> >> One sense, for another see e.g.
>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_sole****
>> >>
>> >> 'role' covers a wide variety of meanings****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> *From:* ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>> >> ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Jack Ring
>> >> *Sent:* 30 January 2012 23:33
>> >> *To:* Ontology Summit 2012 discussion
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [ontology-summit] System Components****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> According to David Taylor, Object Technology for Managers, role is
>> >> simply an authorization to act, not the operator that acts. Operators
>> >> inherit roles then process operands accordingly. ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> On Jan 30, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Nicola Guarino wrote:****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Dear Matthew, ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> just a few clarifications concerning my lab's work. Note
>> >> that I am just trying to catch up with the (main points of the)
>> >> discussion, and I am probably missing many things. I look forward to
>> >> seeing the discussion synthesised somewhere, in order to allow
>> >> everybody to understand how we
>> >> progress.****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Matthew West writes (answering to Giancarlo Guizzardi):****
>> >>
>> >> An alternative to this issue can be thought of by considering qua
>> >> individuals
>> >> (e.g.http://www.loa.istc.cnr.it/Papers/KR04MasoloC.pdf)****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> MW: This is very similar to the 4D, but is relatively opaque, and
>> >> gives more individuals than if you adopt extensional identity in 4D.
>> >> In this case playing multiple roles simultaneously does not give
>> >> multiple states, but one state playing multiple roles. A bit more
>> >> elegant I think.****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> or perspectiles
>> >> http://www.loa.istc.cnr.it/Papers/BottazziFerrarioPerspectilesEuroCog
>> >> Sciv.pdf
>> >> ). ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> MW: This seems to generalise the idea above a bit. One problem I have
>> >> with both of these is that (if I understand it correctly) they treat
>> >> social and other roles as purely classes. This gives me a problem if
>> >> I want to shake the hand of the president, or start P101, because
>> >> classes are abstract, and these are just things you can't do to them.
>> >> This is central to what I find unsatisfactory with these kinds of
>> >> approaches. The situation is confused by there being several
>> >> different meanings to role, from the participant role in an activity
>> >> or state, to the component in a system, or social role with
>> >> significant differences in character between them.****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> The second paper is still work in progress, while the first one is
>> >> more established. In both cases, however, for sure the approach does
>> >> not only admit roles as "pure classes", and new kinds of individuals
>> >> are introduced.
>> >> I defend a similar, although slightly different approach in the paper
>> >> below, which explicitly considers the parts replacement problem
>> >> (among other things) by introducing the notion of a "virtual
>> >> individual" (NOTE
>> >> -
>> >> this is still a draft - comments welcome):****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7903842/Guarino-FunctionalPartsFunctionalRole
>> >> s.pdf
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Best,****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Nicola****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >> -- ****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.
>> > gbergcross@xxxxxxxxx
>> > http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GaryBergCross
>> > NSF INTEROP Project
>> > http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0955816
>> > SOCoP Executive Secretary
>> > Knowledge Strategies
>> > Potomac, MD
>> > 240-426-0770
>> >
>> >
>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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