ontolog-forum
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [ontolog-forum] HOL decidability [Was: using SKOSfor controlled valu

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Rich Cooper" <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:54:47 -0700
Message-id: <20101013215452.C838E138D1A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Bill,

 

Nicely analyzed; my comments are below,

-Rich

 

Sincerely,

Rich Cooper

EnglishLogicKernel.com

Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com

9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2

 

<snip/>

 

Earlier, Rich said this

 

RC: The plurality of Systems, as you called them, are ordered in pairs with the integers (a superset of primes), but not with the primes.  That is how Godel constructed his proof.  So there are true theorems that can’t be proven (factored) and false theorems that can’t be disproved (factored), because in association with the integers, they occasionally designate a prime – which by definition can’t be factored.

 

BA:> From what I could gather, he was trying to claim that somehow, under Gödel's construction, the non-theorems were the only things represented as prime numbers.  As I understand Gödel's method, and as you pointed out earlier, the business of the use of primes for arithmetizing syntax had nothing to do with the theoremhood (or not) of the resulting sentences (or proofs) so arithmetized.  I can't recall how the construction went exactly, but it seems to me that the point was that all sentences (proofs) were represented by non-primes, the idea being you could then exploit their arithmetic structure to tear them apart into their constituents. 

 

Yes, and the factors designate those constituents.

 

So you'd have some non-primes that represent non-sentences (proofs), some non-primes that represent sentences (proofs), and primes that either represent primitives in the construction or fail to represent any legal syntactic entity.  Is this about right?

 

That's correct - the primes, not being factorable, designate unique expressions, and cannot be factored into those "legal syntactic entity" elements. 

 

The discussion started with the concept that HOLs are more expressive than just the combined FOL primitives can express.  The primes are not factorable into those FOL primitives, but are unique expressions which cannot be reached through sentences composed of combinations of AND, OR, NOT and ground instances.  

 

Thanks for making this clearer, Bill. 

 

-Rich

 

 

> Either way, some face time with an

> introductory text on the latter subject is in order.  I'd suggest

> Boolos, Jeffrey, and Burgess, _Computability and Logic_.

 

Yes.  We all could benefit from more such face time.

 

> -chris

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ 

> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/ 

> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/

> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/

> To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J

> To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

>

 

Bill Andersen

Highfleet, Inc. (www.highfleet.com)

3600 O'Donnell Street, Suite 600

Baltimore, MD 21224

Office: +1.410.675.1201

Cell: +1.443.858.6444

Fax: +1.410.675.1204

 

 

 

 

 

 

_________________________________________________________________

Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ 

Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/ 

Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/

Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/

To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J

To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 


_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/  
Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/  
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ 
To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    (01)

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>