See in line
Sean Barker (01)
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of doug foxvog
> Sent: 16 February 2010 23:32
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Cc: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Chairs - was Foundation ontology, CYC, and
> Mapping
>
>
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> Sean Barker wrote:
>> Doug Foxvog wrote
>
>>> "The referent for many terms would have to be defined in NL. And the
>
>>> boundary conditions for terms would be hard to define. Can we
>>> formally define a cat? Certainly one could formally define a chair,
>>> but each ontology to be mapped to would probably have a different
>>> definition. It might be nice to describe fuzzy boundaries for
> concepts."
>
>> One might define cat through what cats are in themselves, a particular
>
>> group of living creatures, defined by the genetic boundaries that
>> prevent breeding with other creatures.
>
> This definition relies on an unknown genetic defintiion. It can not be
> used to determine whether a given living being is a cat.
>
>> However there is nothing of itself that makes a chair a chair (think
>> of the 60's fad for pod shaped chairs hanging from the ceiling).
>> Basically, chair is an artefact designed and manufactured for a single
>
>> adult human to sit on, clear of the floor. This definition eliminates
>> - Rocks
>> - Logs
>> - Tables (which can be sat on)
>> - Benches, pews, settles, sofas
>> - Cushions
>> However, the definition would need a few tweeks to eliminate car
>> seats, ejector seats, lavatories, bosun's chairs, etc.
>
> ... stools, bicycle seats, ... Wouldn't a back support be needed.
> Why exclude children's chairs? My main point here is that various
> existing ontologies would have different descriptive derinitions.
> Most would have defined their local terms on the basis of object
> features.
> This definition is based on the intent of the designer & manufacturer
> instead of intrinsic properties of the object.
>
[SB] That is EXACTLY the point. Our understanding of chair implicitly
includes knowledge of intent, and the intrinsic properties of a chair
are at best an aide memoire to recognising a chair, and NOT part of the
definition.
>
>
>> A chair is not defined by its form, but by the processes that humans
>> apply to create and use it (the forms of life in which it is
>> involved). This is what I mean when I say that "semantics is defined
>> by behaviour". We have common semantics (we have made the same
>> differentations) up to the point where we have common forms of life.
>
>
>> If when I ask the robot grocer to give me "three red apples" it gives
>> me three red apples, then I can be happy it understood the request -
>> in saying that the semantics of "three red apples"
>> is understood, all I am saying is that it behaved in the correct way.
>> I have no need of the concept of "concept" to describe its
>> understanding.
>>
>> That is, semantics is about the behaviour of systems - if you want to
>> talk about the meaning of signs, I think (please correct me) we are
>> talking semiotics. I suspect that much of the argumentation of recent
>> threads (primitives, Longman's dictionary, etc) is a proxy arguement
>> between semantics and semiotics.
>>
>> Sean Barker, Bristol
>
>
> =============================================================
> doug foxvog doug@xxxxxxxxxx http://ProgressiveAustin.org
>
> "I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great
> initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."
> - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
> =============================================================
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>
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