Wow do I agree with you Bill on this post! (01)
What more evidence is there of subjectivity importance than someone who is
familiar with at least two linguistic cultures is even available? (02)
Ferenc's postings show his amazingly deep ontological awareness, and I
believe that is due to the subjectivity of all our consciousnesses. (03)
JMHO,
-Rich (04)
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com (05)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Burkett,
William [USA]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:06 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontologies as socialmediators
(was:Ontologydevelopment method) (06)
I guess I live in Ferenc's world, Chris. Setting aside some sentence
construction problems, I understand what he's saying and agree with it - and
I don't understand your perspective that his assertions are
false/meaningless. (07)
Ferenc's statement that he's a linguist is important to understanding his
(and my) perspective. I think linguistics has a LOT more to contribute to
the field of ontology development than logic does. (08)
Bill (09)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher
Menzel
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:38 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontologies as social mediators
(was:Ontologydevelopment method) (010)
On Dec 2, 2009, at 3:14 PM, FERENC KOVACS wrote:
> Chris M wrote:
>
>> If what you say is true, you should be able to give a valid argument for
it. However, if what you say is true, it will not be possible for you to do
so, since a valid argument must depend on the validity of the basic laws of
logic. Hence, what you say is not true. (Of course, you will not accept this
argument since it depends on the argument pattern Reductio Ad Absurdum,
which according to you is not endorsed by reason and hence, presumably, is
not valid.)
>
> A proposal in a natural language may not be identical withn itself. E.g.
No one likes to be contradicted =/ No one likes to be contradicted Or:
Everyone loves finding another one in contradiction with him/herself Subject
to the emphasis you may vary when reading it out, you will have diferent
meanings exposed. Or in simple English: I want to pay you for your
contribution. Each "content" word may be emphasized, gramamr words cannot,
they will not change the meaning that way. they are like nuts and bolts, So
it is the FOCUS that will vary meaning. You need to know where the fpcus is
in a statement. But normally, our focus is very limited and missing in
writing. Old grammarians believe that words are in the centre of semantic
analysis, but they are not. they also believe that there are such things as
abstract nouns and conrete nouns, which is not correct either. Identity is
Not objective and fixed and a law. Do you want me to elabrate on that? There
is an abstract-concrete an
d generic-specific continuum which is the reflection of one's knowledge or
learnedness. Do you want me to go into the details of that? (011)
I can't imagine that would be a good use of either your time or mine. By my
admittedly dim lights, every assertion you make above is either obviously
false or meaningless. No offense intended, that's just the honest truth.
Let's just say we live in different worlds and leave it at that. (012)
Chris Menzel (013)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Menzel" <cmenzel@xxxxxxxx>
> To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontologies as social mediators
> (was:Ontologydevelopment method)
>
>
>> On Dec 1, 2009, at 10:51 AM, FERENC KOVACS wrote:
>>> ...I find that the basic laws of logic, i. e. the law of identity, etc.
>>> are not endorsed by reason seeing truth as the ultimate criteria of
>>> anything worth stating and accepting as plausible knowledge.
>>
>> If what you say is true, you should be able to give a valid argument for
>> it. However, if what you say is true, it will not be possible for you to
>> do so, since a valid argument must depend on the validity of the basic
>> laws of logic. Hence, what you say is not true. (Of course, you will
not
>> accept this argument since it depends on the argument pattern Reductio Ad (014)
>> Absurdum, which according to you is not endorsed by reason and hence,
>> presumably, is not valid.)
>>
>>> On the contrary, they are endorsed by emotion and will,
>>
>> So I guess it follows for you (although how can it *follow* if there are
>> no objectively valid logical laws by which one thing follows from
>> another?) that there can be no debates. Rather, on your telling, we
>> simply throw out our opinions (all of them ungrounded in argument, it
>> appears) and hope that others will accept them in virtue of a sudden
flood
>> of emotion or a non-rational act of will. And, indeed, reading through
>> your post, it does appear to be simply a series of assertions with nary
an
>> argument to be found so you do appear to be consistent on that score.
>>
>>> since truth is something people are ready to fight for and anything
>>> claimed to be not true would normally upset the person claiming that
>>> point, if challenged.
>>
>> I hope I haven't upset you. ;-)
>>
>> Chris Menzel (015)
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