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Re: [ontolog-forum] [semweb-31] Linked Open Data Questions

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx
From: "AzamatAbdoullaev" <abdoul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:02:45 +0300
Message-id: <E993F670F80B42B2B658EAD631FAC6C7@personalpc>
Ravi Sharma wrote:
"Every URL is not necessarily an Information Link. I hope some are just data 
links and some more have some semantic or understanding related meaning. Are 
you folks on to something that would designate the value of information 
content in the URL by categorizing the Value-Metadata field or tag type 
associated with URL/URI. The RDF types are not quite there yet?
Thus the equations of relativity will, for example, have high value!
Models of ORION spacecraft that have been space qualified - such as 
"re-entry and safe landed spacecraft" info page rather than ICD / CDR 
document URL only will have different value levels? Vanilla flavored URI / 
URLs will only allow triples type searches but higher cognition type value 
chains ought to also emerge?"    (01)

I used to think what is questioned by Dr Ravi Sharma, a recipent of Apollo 
Achievment Award from NASA, 
http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2008-07/msg00023.html,  has 
always some deep implicit meaning.
This time, he raised the topical issues also touched in the article, "In 
Defense of Ambiguity", indicating: "There are two distinctly different 
relationships between names and things: access and reference. To confuse the 
two relations leads to underlying problems with Web architecture." 
http://www.ibiblio.org/hhalpin/homepage/publications/indefenseofambiguity.html.    (02)

Judging from the public reaction, ... its absence, all these critical and 
significant subjects for the development of Internet/Web must be somehow 
sorted out: "identity crisis on the web", "access and/or reference 
relationships", "the class of things referred to vs. the class of 
accessible things", "web resources vs. information resources and 
non-information resources", " URIs vs. entities in the real world", "the web 
vs. universal information space", " the web of data vs. the web of 
entities". Then very curious to learn of any of solutions, if any. Many 
thanks.    (03)

Azamat Abdoullaev    (04)

----- Original Message -----     (05)

From: "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>    (06)

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>    (07)

Cc: <semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx>    (08)

Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:08 PM    (09)

Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] [semweb-31] Linked Open Data Questions    (010)



ravi sharma wrote:
> Cory and Dean
>
> Every URL is not necessarily an Information Link.    (011)

Every URL is a LINK to an Information Resource, so it is always an
Information (data in context) link. Basically, a file hosted at the
Address conveyed by the URL.    (012)


A generic HTTP URI isn't the same thing as a URL. It possesses a
powerful Identity / Address (Access) duality that comes into play when
you seek to Refer-to something (Identity) or Access its Description
(Access via Address) in a representation of your choosing (typically via
HTTP's content negotiation).    (013)


URI/URL or URL/URI is just another expression of the aforementioned
functional duality.    (014)

Kingsley
> I hope some are just data links and some more have some semantic or
> understanding related meaning. Are you folks on to something that
> would designate the value of information content in the URL by
> categorizing the Value-Metadata field or tag type associated with
> URL/URI. The RDF types are not quite there yet?
> Thus the equations of relativity will, for example, have high value!
> Models of ORION spacecraft that have been space qualified - such as
> "re-entry and safe landed spacecraft" info page rather than ICD / CDR
> document URL only will have different value levels? Vanilla flavored
> URI / URLs will only allow triples type searches but higher cognition
> type value chains ought to also emerge?
>
> -- 
> Thanks.
> Ravi
> (Dr. Ravi Sharma)
> 313 204 1740 Mobile
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Cory Casanave <cory-c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:cory-c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
>     Hi Ralph,
>
>     Absolutely agree about IRs representing multiple
>     aspects/viewpoints of a TINW  I would be interested in your
>     definitions of aspect & viewpoint in this regard to see how we are
>     matching up.  To clarify, representation of the TINW is pure
>     identity  anything that is said about it is in an IR and the TINW
>     is the glue between them as they are aspects/viewpoints of the
>     same thing.  I will take a look at how your are approaching this
>     once it is on oeGOV.
>
>
>
>     As you may know we are also doing architectural integration and
>     conversions, I would be very interested in your OWL
>     interpretations of SySML and other languages.  Are you going to be
>     releasing that on oeGOV?   We are releasing an initial part
>      (Structural conversion of anything in XMI) as open source on
>     ModelDiven.org very soon.  In any case, collaborating on this may
>     make sense.
>
>
>
>     As for a model being a view for a purpose  we have to be carful
>     about that  the information we publish as models will and should
>     be used for all kinds of purposes that the publisher may not have
>     intended  this is part of the open and transparent government
>     idea.  I would say a model is a perspective on the world.  It is
>     up to a user of a model to decide if that perspective is valid for
>     their purpose.  The same is, of course, true of any data set.
>     This makes it important for the perspective to be clearly specified.
>
>
>
>     -Cory
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:* semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx>
>     [mailto:semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx>] *On
>     Behalf Of *Ralph Hodgson
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:30 PM
>
>     *To:* semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx>
>     *Subject:* Re: [semweb-31] Linked Open Data Questions
>
>
>
>     Cory - Pitching in, but really with no time to do this. So brief I
>     will be.
>
>     Cory Casanave wrote:
>
>     Hi Dean,
>
>     Yes, skos:exactMatch is much more palatable.  However I wondering if 
> it
>
>     may be a good idea to more formally recognize this difference between 
> an
>
>     information resource and what the information resource is about (the
>
>     thing in the world).
>
>     When we want to understand there are different viewpoints and
>
>     authorities making statements about something then we start to want 
> the
>
>     information to have its own identity and to be able to talk about that
>
>     information as different from the subject of the information.
>
>     Any ontology work must recognize that there are different spaces
>     (call them Information Spaces - IS) in which meanings are shared.
>     In the case of an IR, in one IS it might have "about-hood" in
>     another space it may be "of-hood". What does this mean? The notion
>     of "thing-in-the-world" (TINW) should be carefully discerned when
>     we are talking IRs.
>
>     I will use examples from System Engineering, SE, (not Software
>     Engineering - hard sometimes to agree "TINW" for that often). So
>     if I have an ORION vehicle (future APOLLO-like space vehicle) what
>     am I referring to - an instance of an ORION, a type of vehicle,
>     the "As-Designed", "As-Built", "As-Maintained" IRs? And what
>     Aspect and Viewpoint are we dealing with (notice I distinguish
>     "aspect" from "viewpoint").  IRs exist for different aspects of
>     the vehicle and different viewpoints, and an IR has "about-ness"
>     that represents a transference of concepts, properties and axioms
>     to a specific IS - the map of the Mall is not the Mall.
>
>     One further piece, an IR can also have an IRD - an Information
>     Resource Description - what an IR is. An example helps. Consider
>     an Interface Control Document (ICD) as an IR. There is a ICD
>     Description saying that an ICD has two or more system elements and
>     a set of constraints for the interfacing, etc.  Condensing 3
>     modeling styles into one sentence: this would be an owl:Class (or
>     sub-class of owl:Class if OWL-full is allowed) with sub-classes
>     (or owl:Classes) for different types of ICD (or instances if
>     expressing types as instances is acceptable practice ). A
>     particular ICD for a specific type of interfacing would reference
>     the ICD Description. Sometimes this is referred to as a
>     "class-instance" mirror (or metaclass-class mirror) pattern.
>
>     Where do we find SE models that make these distinctions? As you
>     may know, I have taken SysML and made OWL versions in SysMO.
>     DoDAF 2.0 we have converted to OWL. NIEM also. All these offer
>     examples of IRs, IRDs and ISs. At NASA, NExIOM ontologies have
>     these distinctions because Enterprise Architecture meets Data
>     Architecture and System (think vehicle as as well as Information
>     System) Models.
>
>     For oeGov, we have a start on separating these concerns. If we are
>     to collaborate on this, as you well know, joint work needs a
>     common meta-level of how we want to express our cognitions about
>     "things" and "spaces". If we achieve that we progress at the model
>     level. Currently LOD is happening with "little-o" efforts - very
>     light ontologies. The pragmatists of LOD are doing quite well
>     without heavy models. So perhaps there is time to get "midsize-o"
>     work happening?
>
>
>
>      This gets
>
>     back to some of the reification issues we discussed long ago.
>
>     So if we wanted to say that <information resource> represents 
> <identity>
>
>     we could have the option of combining or contrasting information
>
>     resources about the same identity.  The other way may be to say that
>
>     <information resource> skos:exactMatch <information resource>, but 
> that
>
>     is a somewhat different semantic.
>
>
>
>     Meanings are affordances that happen when we are clear on how
>     cognitions in one space of viewing the world are applicable in
>     other (information) spaces. These  spaces constitute how we
>     organize our representations for putting distinctions to work - we
>     might think of this as "transference of meanings". Simply stated -
>     a model is a view for a purpose (how 'applicable' has meaning).
>     There is difficulty always in thinking about notions of the "real
>     world".
>
>     I just purchased you book and have not had a chance to read it yet -
>
>     perhaps it has all the answers!
>
>     It would seem to me that some consensus on such an approach for LOD
>
>     would be a good idea.  Thanks for the pointers.
>
>     -Cory
>
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>
>     From: semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx> 
> [mailto:semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>
>     Dean Allemang
>
>     Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:42 PM
>
>     To: semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:semweb-31@xxxxxxxxxx>
>
>     Subject: Re: [semweb-31] Linked Open Data Questions
>
>
>
>     Cory Casanave wrote:
>
>
>
>>     We distinguish "information" resources from logical ones.
>>
>     Informational resources are dereferenceable as a URL and have a set of
>
>     triples that are the facts about that informational resource from the
>
>     point of view of the publisher, who is the owner of that URL.
>
>     Informational resources have a triple (not yet sure if we want to 
> commit
>
>     to sameas) that references the identity of the logical resource that 
> is
>
>     the subject of that informational resource.  Logical URI is the 
> identity
>
>     of the real world entity or concept, not information about that entity
>
>     or concept.  So the information has an identity that is connected to 
> but
>
>     not the same as the underlying entity.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>     Just on the topic of commitment to owl:sameAs, an alternative (which 
> is
>
>     still a commitment, but perhaps more palatable in some contexts) is to
>
>     commit to skos:exactMatch
>
>     (http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/PR-skos-reference-20090615/#mapping).  I 
> have
>
>
>
>     found this to be sensible in certain contexts where, for one reason or
>
>     another, I am not quite willing to make the very strong logical
>
>     commitment that owl:sameAs entails.
>
>
>
>     Dean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     --
>
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>     This message was sent by Dean Allemang (dallemang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
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>
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>
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>
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>     This message was sent by Cory Casanave (cory-c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:cory-c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>) from The Washington Semantic Web Meetup.
>
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>
>
>     -- 
>
>     Ralph Hodgson
>
>     CTO and Executive Partner, TopQuadrant, Inc., www.topquadrant.com 
> <http://www.topquadrant.com/>, http://twitter.com/TopQuadrant
>
>     VA Office: (703) 299-9330, CA Office: (650) 265-0529, eFax: (425) 
> 955-5469, Cell: (781) 789-1664
>
>     http://twitter.com/ralphtq
>
>
>
>
>
>     --
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>     --
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>    (015)


--     (016)


Regards,    (017)

Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO
OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com    (018)





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