Re: [ontolog-forum] {Disarmed} Reality and Truth

["Deborah MacPherson" <debmacp@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Paola -

On 5/18/07, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx <paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx > wrote:

HI Deb
I am interested in analysing the reality vs truth relationship

In an earlier statement I said that 'reality is the sum of what is true'

I could have also said, 'reality is the sum of what is', that could also be narrowed further to 'reality is what is',
[ or more simple 'reality is what exists']

So you believe reality happens after truth or because of truth, an agglomeration of truth parts into a reality whole? 

Let me try to understand your reasoning:

Reality is bigger, truth is smaller.

bigger than..... smaller than.... please give an example of your metrics,

The reality of solving a current problem such as an epidemic in Africa is viewed differently by everyone affected - the drug companies see one part, medical teams on the ground another, the actual patients another, people without health care yet another, nonprofit organizations trying to help still another - adding all the scenarios together does not result in the truth, it only raises the larger problem of global health care. The simple truth is that a disease is spreading, reality expands the central issue with demands for figuring out how much it will cost, identifying where the people are located, evaluating whether this drug is the right drug - many complex aspects to a simple problem. Truth is not always achievable.

Reality simply happens without qualifications, it is not true yet.

well, I am arguing a different viewpoint here. I suggest that you may or may not consider something true, but if it exists,  then it  must be true. For example   
human with wings = does not exist = false

I am suggesting that something that is not true cannot exist in reality.

Or, something that is not true does not exist in reality yet.

I would like you to argue directly with that statement above, if you disagree

Plenty of true things exist in reality and we do not see or understand them. Yet, we continue to make inventions and write stories and cure diseases. Truths are changed by reality. As compose Kenneth Fields states in upcoming paper Ontologies, Catagories, Folksonomies: An Organised Language of Sound "Stars used to be grouped by fable and narrative, while later they were grouped by spectral class". Previously, we did not know there were spectral classes to group the stars with, that does not put spectral classes outside of reality because we did not know what we were looking for or what we were missing hanging onto whatever theory prevails at a certain time.

Reality is a chaotic swirl.

Because it is mixed with delusion, illusion, mistake

Only a small portion of it is worth keeping and deeming "true"

Truth needs to be selected, remembered, picked apart and make sense - collectively brought forward into the future on purpose.

I think also truth is a caotic swirl, and  what is not true is not reality as such, but delusion

Truth is temporary. The fixed points of it throughout time are the summary of what we know.

Current truths may or may not reference past realities, history repeats itself and we make the same mistakes over and over again.

That because the political reality of historial reality has never been told completely and correctly.
So there is a dichotomy between reality and truth only because they are both impartial and incomplete or incorrect

The main benefit of the digital age is the potential ability to put together more complete, diverse, opposing versions of the same events into unified records to inspect and analyze to reveal the tiny truths hidden within the monstrous, unedited, unselected, unproven mess of reality.

Reality and truth may refer to each other but that does not make them equal. Reality can't be completely true because they are not the same.

I think they are, although they can be viewed separately and/or from different angles and perspectives

They are versions of each other and co-dependent then. As a record keeper, I prefer to stick with truths because they are more compact and worth keeping. Most of reality does not advance knowledge and clear understanding.

 Truth is extractions of portions of reality we want to keep thinking about, looking at, working with. Huge percentages of reality are discarded in the quest for truth.

Thats where the quest for truth fails, when it discards portions of reality

It must. Truth is a sculpture, made by removing parts of reality that don't belong. You cannot see the sculpture if the whole rock is still there.

Anyway, you are entitled to see your world in any way you wish, and yes I think reality and truth and messy and long but can be sorted out within a suitable framework (lol)

I hope so too. 

Paola DM


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Deborah L. MacPherson
Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC
Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics

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