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Re: [ontolog-forum] The Relation Between Logic and Ontology inMetaphysic

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Christopher Menzel <cmenzel@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:49:24 -0500
Message-id: <F721F419-1DB9-4AB9-B0E1-48EC628E2597@xxxxxxxx>
On Mar 16, 2007, at 2:27 PM, Duane Nickull wrote:
> On 3/16/07 12:20 PM, "Christopher Menzel" <cmenzel@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> CM> if you are talking about the usual sort of first-order
>>> language in which predicates cannot also be arguments to other
>>> predicates, then of course there will be loss of expressivity.
>>> If one interpreted this as saying that there are no higher order
>>> properties, then surely that would be an ontological implication.
>> Surely it would not; it would be a logical howler.  From the
>> inability to say there are Xs nothing whatever follows about the
>> existence or nonexistence of Xs.    (01)

> IMO - this discussion is rapidly reaching the "say something to  
> prove you
> exist" challenge.  Since several of the upper level ontology work  
> defines
> forms of first order logic, can we at least frame this debate/ 
> conversation
> in some lexicon?  Wouldn't it make infinite more sense than  
> starting with a
> blank slate?    (02)

I do not see the relevance of this comment to the exchange above.  My  
point was a simple logical one.  Chris P claimed that inferring    (03)

(1) There are no higher-order properties    (04)

from    (05)

(2) Traditional first-order language L is unable to express that  
there are higher-order properties    (06)

is an "ontological implication".  My response is that there is no  
implication of any sort here, there is simply a bad inference.  (2)  
does not *imply* (1), and so it would be a logical mistake to *infer*  
(1) from (2).  Nothing, once again, follows about the existence of Xs  
from the fact that a given formalism cannot say anything about Xs.    (07)

-chris    (08)

ps:  If you wish to pursue this matter, would you mind interleaving  
comments instead of top-posting?    (09)

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