Re: [ontolog-forum] Defining Concept

[Charles D Turnitsa <CTurnits@xxxxxxx>]

Patrick,

 Yes, You and I are in agreement on Universal.   My thumbnail definition that I gave did not have the associated establishment for the terms that I used.

 When I say "universal non-divisible idea" I mean this:

 Universal extends only through the domain that the ontology is intended to serve.  If the ontology is for (example 1) Micro-Biology, then the "concepts" should all have an agreed to universal meaning to practitioners and experts within the Micro-Biology domain.

 Non-Divisible also extends only through the domain that the ontology is intended to serve.  If the ontology is for (example 2) Urban Traffic, then many of the entities that will exist (car-types, car-instances, other vehicles, pedestrians, etc) will be partially defined by exhibiting the "concept" of GROUND MOBILITY.  This does not satisfy the definition of a "concept", because it is divisible - it is easy to see that there may be some entities that have a different type of movement capability (AIR MOBILITY for helicopters, for instance), so MOBILITY is the non-divisible here.  The addition of either Ground or Air would be a property assigned to the entity in question.

 Aside from what I am trying to do to improve my definition, I have to say that I don't see how something as subjective as an idea can be universal outside of a particular domain, which I believe is similar to what was decided at last years summit.

Chuck

Charles Turnitsa
Project Scientist
Virginia Modeling, Analysis & Simulation Center
Old Dominion University Research Foundation
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cturnits@xxxxxxx

-----ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: -----

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Patrick Durusau <patrick@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 19/01/2007 05:20PM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Defining Concept

Charles,

Charles D Turnitsa wrote:

>Hello,
>
>  
>
<snip>

>By concepts, here I mean a universal, non-divisible idea.  This "concept"
>when combined with others forms the definition of an entity.
>
>  
>
Well, "*universal*, non-divisible idea" is at the heart of the problem
isn't it?

That is to say that as usually discussed, ontologies are making
universal claims, which may be valid for those using the ontology but
not valid for others.

I really don't see the probem with simply saying that for purpose X we
find that assuming a - z to be "universal, non-divisible ideas" is
useful. That is the scope of "universal" is limited to a particular
domain or problem area without trying to make claims for areas we
haven't bothered to explore. Or that others might resolve differently.

Rather than searching for or more commonly arguing about a common set of
"universal, non-divisible ideas" why not simply state the "universal,
non-divisible ideas" for a particular ontology and let it go at that?

I understood from the teleconference that last year's summit on upper
ontologies resulted in agreement to disagree. I can't imagine any other
outcome from a search for a common set of "universal, non-divisible
ideas."  Certainly useful to see when one or more members of the
community think there are common "universal, non-divisible ideas" in
different ontologies but that doesn't make them any closer to (or
further away from) being universal.

Hope everyone is looking  forward to a great weekend!

Patrick




--
Patrick Durusau
Patrick@xxxxxxxxxxx
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
Member, Text Encoding Initiative Board of Directors, 2003-2005

Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!



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