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Re: [ontolog-forum] RE: description of the logical or semantic structur

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Internet Business Logic <ibl@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:38:21 -0500
Message-id: <436A4B0D.6060906@xxxxxxxx>
David --  

You wrote:
I think we need to also consider the logical representation of the semantics so they can be used for inferencing.

Yes, of course.  In the mentioned system there is a logical semantics underneath the open vocabulary English layer.  It's basically stratified datalog plus NAF, with extensions for aggregations and arithmetic.

                                                -- Adrian

Internet Business Logic (R)
Online at www.reengineeringllc.com
Shared, community use is FREE

Reengineering,  PO Box 1412,  Bristol,  CT 06011-1412,  USA

Phone 860 583 9677     Mobile 860 830 2085     Fax 860 314 1029


David C Martin wrote:

I think we need to also consider the logical representation of the semantics so they can be used for inferencing.
-----------------
David C Martin
IBM Healthcare & Life Sciences
dcmartin@xxxxxxxxxx | +1 (408) 623-6647


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: ontolog-forum-bounces
  Sent: 11/03/2005 09:20 AM
  To: [ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; chiusano_joseph@xxxxxxx; mike@xxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum]  RE: description of the logical or semantic structure


Hi Joseph --

Actually, you are opening up a very interesting can of worms here.

The key point is:

"The tags have no meaning without an external explanation of their intent and usage."   [Italics added]

For this reason, we have been advocating open vocabulary English application semantics in addition to what is normally meant by "semantics" on these fora -- namely, data semantics.

There's more about this in the "e-Government Presentation" at reengineeringllc.com, and also in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/rules-ws/paper/19, and in the underlying online system.

HTH.  Thanks in advance for comments.                 -- Adrian Walker,  CTO,  Reengineering


Internet Business Logic (R)
Online at www.reengineeringllc.com
Shared, community use is FREE

Reengineering,  PO Box 1412,  Bristol,  CT 06011-1412,  USA

Phone 860 583 9677     Mobile 860 830 2085     Fax 860 314 1029





Chiusano Joseph wrote:
I posted the response below to the XML-DEV list yesterday in response to
a question concerning XML and semantics. I recommended use of a
reference to an OWL class (or property of a class) via an attribute on
an element in an XML instance document that provides the necessary
semantics for the element (in this case, a person's full name).

Is this approach radical? New? Valuable? Outlandish? Comments welcome. 

Joe

Joseph Chiusano
Associate
Booz Allen Hamilton
 
700 13th St. NW
Washington, DC 20005
O: 202-508-6514  
C: 202-251-0731
Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@xxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:10 PM
To: Michael Kay; ludger goeke; xml-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [xml-dev] RE: description of the logical or semantic
structure 

  
No, the tags in your markup are arbitrary strings. It's your 
description of the markup "When I say Name, I mean personal name" that
    

  
conveys the semantics. There's arguably a default description "When I 
use a tag that's an English word, I use it with the same meaning as 
that English word", but that's still something that's external to the 
XML document itself.
The tags have no meaning without an external explanation of their 
intent and usage.
    

Not sure if anyone is doing this (or has thought about it), but it seems
to me that if one included a reference (URI) to an instance of an OWL
class (or property of a class) then that can be a step in the right
direction. 

So perhaps one could have:

<Name owl-ref="www.someuri.com">Peter Smith</Name>

where "owl-ref" (attribute name simply chosen by me for this response)
refers to an OWL class/property that conveys that "This is the full name
of a Person".

Joe

Joseph Chiusano
Associate
Booz Allen Hamilton
 
700 13th St. NW
Washington, DC 20005
O: 202-508-6514
C: 202-251-0731
Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
 

  
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Kay [mailto:mike@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:51 AM
To: 'ludger goeke'; xml-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [xml-dev] RE: description of the logical or semantic 
structure

    
<Person>
   <Name>Peter Smith</Name>
   <Age>56</Age>
</Person>


Does the markup describes  the content for example  "Peter
      
Smith" in a
    
semantic way, that means does it describes that the content "Peter 
Smith" has the semantic of a name
      
No, the tags in your markup are arbitrary strings. It's your 
description of the markup "When I say Name, I mean personal name" that
    

  
conveys the semantics. There's arguably a default description "When I 
use a tag that's an English word, I use it with the same meaning as 
that English word", but that's still something that's external to the 
XML document itself.
The tags have no meaning without an external explanation of their 
intent and usage.
Without that explanation, the above XML fragment could mean "Launch an
    

  
attack on Cuba NOW!".

Michael Kay




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-- 

Internet Business Logic (R)
Online at www.reengineeringllc.com
Shared, community use is FREE

Reengineering,  PO Box 1412,  Bristol,  CT 06011-1412,  USA

Phone 860 583 9677     Mobile 860 830 2085     Fax 860 314 1029


  


-- 

Internet Business Logic (R)
Online at www.reengineeringllc.com
Shared, community use is FREE

Reengineering,  PO Box 1412,  Bristol,  CT 06011-1412,  USA

Phone 860 583 9677     Mobile 860 830 2085     Fax 860 314 1029


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