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Re: Representation - KIF vs Protege [was Re: [ontolog-forum] Personas

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Adam Pease <adampease@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 09:48:57 -0700
Message-id: <>
   If the model is created in KIF and then translated to Protege this might 
work, but if the model is created in Protege and translated to KIF you'll 
have the problems I mentioned analogous to writing C style in C++.
   It's good that Protege is familiar, and has a large user community, but 
that line of argument could be extended to XML.  More people are familiar 
with XML.  It has a larger user base and tool set, so why not just create 
XML rather than worry about ontologies?    (01)

Adam    (02)

At 09:41 AM 8/7/2003 -0700, Peter P. Yim wrote:
>I will not question the appropriateness of KIF, in terms of formality and 
>expressiveness. On the other hand, we have Protégé, a tool familiar with, 
>probably, by the most number of ontology practitioners (albeit small as 
>they are already) as substantiated by our own survey (see: 
>http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum//ontolog-forum/2002-11/msg00035.html ) and 
>Protégé's user statistics (see: 
>Referring, again, to both our [ontolog-forum] charter (see: 
>http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl#nid011 ),
>and that of UBL's (see: 
>http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/charter.php ),
>we are out to contribute to solving an e-business industry standardization 
>problem. Our solution will need to be adopted and applied, if it were to 
>even come close to being successful.
>As such, I am in favor of having our work represented (at least) both in 
>KIF and in Protégé (I actually thought that was what we had agreed upon 
>before)  -- with both being our normative deliverable.  We need to 
>leverage the Protégé users, developers, plug-ins, ... etc.
>Therefore, my suggestion is that we should focus the conversation, not on 
>whether its should be KIF or Protégé, but rather, how can we deliver BOTH, 
>and in so doing tackle both the science, as well as coming up with the 
>engineering solution that is "good enough" to be an applicable industry 
>standard -- and, be able to help the industry migrate to that solution 
>with ease.
>P.S. May I request that we all try to make sure that the discussion is 
>consistent with the subject line -- this will greatly facilitate future 
>retrieval/re-use of the knowledge, at least by humans. :-)  -ppy
>Adam Pease wrote Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:04:49 -0700:
> >
>>   My understanding is that first order logic completely subsumes frames 
>> and description logics.  So, nothing would be lost by choosing KIF.
>>At 11:00 AM 8/7/2003 -0400, MDaconta@xxxxxxx wrote:
>>>Hi Adam,
>>>I agree that the axioms are important to have. Do we lose any frame-based
>>>functionality in KIF?
>>>Also, as we go through this I would like us to continue to highlight 
>>>differences between
>>>the approaches.
>>>- Mike
>>>In a message dated 8/6/03 10:36:16 PM, adampease@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
>>>>    One can't just put off considering the axioms until later, because they
>>>>depend on the basic terms and relations.  If the terms and relations are
>>>>created in a limited frame language, it will be make the axioms very hard
>>>>to state in a general way later.
>>>>    If we agree that axioms are important to have (at some point in the
>>>>development process), then its important right now to create a
>>>>representation that will accommodate them later.
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>mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    (03)

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