OntologySummit2014 session-10 Track-C: Overcoming Ontology Engineering Bottlenecks - II - Thu 2014-03-20    (46RI)

Panelists / Briefings:    (4A06)

Archives:    (4A0B)

Conference Call Details    (49N3)

Attendees    (49O0)

Abstract    (4A0L)

Overcoming Ontology Engineering Bottlenecks - II ... intro slides    (4A0M)

This is our 9th OntologySummit, a joint initiative by Ontolog, NIST, NCOR, NCBO, IAOA & NCO_NITRD with the support of our co-sponsors.    (4A0N)

Since the beginnings of the Semantic Web, ontologies have played key roles in the design and deployment of new semantic technologies. Yet over the years, the level of collaboration between the Semantic Web and Applied Ontology communities has been much less than expected. Within Big Data applications, ontologies appear to have had little impact.    (4A0O)

This year's Ontology Summit is an opportunity for building bridges between the Semantic Web, Linked Data, Big Data, and Applied Ontology communities. On the one hand, the Semantic Web, Linked Data, and Big Data communities can bring a wide array of real problems (such as performance and scalability challenges and the variety problem in Big Data) and technologies (automated reasoning tools) that can make use of ontologies. On the other hand, the Applied Ontology community can bring a large body of common reusable content (ontologies) and ontological analysis techniques. Identifying and overcoming ontology engineering bottlenecks is critical for all communities.    (4A0P)

OntologySummit2014 will pose and address the primary challenges in these areas of interaction among the different communities. The Summit activities will bring together insights and methods from these different communities, synthesize new insights, and disseminate knowledge across field boundaries.    (4A0Q)

In this session we will look at a range of ways that bottlenecks arise and can be overcome, including annotating linked data, overcoming deadlocks in ontology development, and using a workbench to develop semantic applications.    (4A0R)

After the panelists briefings, there will be time for Q&A and an open discussion among the panel and all participants.    (4A0S)

See more details at: OntologySummit2014 (homepage for this summit)    (4A0T)

Briefings:    (4A0U)

Agenda:    (4A13)

OntologySummit2014 session-01 Track-A: Common Reusable Semantic Content-I    (4A14)

Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call    (4A15)

Proceedings    (4A1A)

Please refer to the above    (4A1B)

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session:    (4A1C)

 see raw transcript here.    (4A1D)
 (for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)
 Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.    (4A1E)
 -- begin in-session chat-transcript --    (4A1F)
	------
	Chat transcript from room: summit_20140320
	2014-03-20 GMT-08:00 [PDT]
	------    (4A79)
	[8:34] PeterYim: Welcome to the    (4A7A)
	 = OntologySummit2014 session-10 Track-C: Overcoming Ontology Engineering Bottlenecks - II - Thu 2014-03-20 =    (4A7B)
	Summit Theme: Summit Theme: OntologySummit2014: "Big Data and Semantic Web Meet Applied Ontology"    (4A7C)
	Session Topic: Track-C: Overcoming Ontology Engineering Bottlenecks - II    (4A7D)
	Track-C Co-champions: 
	  Professor KrzysztofJanowicz (University of California, Santa Barbara), 
	  Professor PascalHitzler (Wright State University), 
	  Dr. MatthewWest (Information Junction)    (4A7E)
	Session Co-chairs: Professor KrzysztofJanowicz and Dr. MatthewWest    (4A7F)
	Panelists / Briefings:    (4A7G)
	* Professor OscarCorcho (Universidad Politecnica de Madrid) - "10 basic rules to overcome ontology engineering deadlocks in collaborative ontology engineering tasks"    (4A7H)
	* Dr. DhavalThakker (University of Leeds) - "Modeling Cultural Variations in Interpersonal Communication for Augmenting User Generated Content"    (4A7I)
	* Dr. PeterHaase (Fluid Operations) (in absentia) - "Developing Semantic Applications with the Information Workbench - Aspects of Ontology Engineering" (to be presented by JohannesTrame)    (4A7J)
	Logistics:    (4A7K)
	* Refer to details on session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2014_03_20    (4A7L)
	* (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName; also please enable "Show timestamps" while there.    (4A7M)
	* Mute control (phone keypad): *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute    (4A7N)
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	   ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#
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	*** for Linux Skype users: if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it    (4A7O)
	* when posting in this Chat-room, kindly observe the following ...
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	Attendees: AlexShkotin, AmandaVizedom, AnatolyLevenchuk, AndreaWesterinen, AnneThessen, 
	BartGajderowicz, BobbinTeegarden, CarmenChui, CarolBean, ChristiKapp, ConradBeaulieu, DennisPierson, 
	DhavalThakker, EarlGlynn, EdBernot, GaryBergCross, HaroldBoley, JaanaTakis, JamesOverton, 
	JoanneLuciano, JohannesTrame, KenBaclawski, KrzysztofJanowicz, LamarHenderson, LeoObrst, LesMorgan, 
	MarcelaVegetti, MariaHerrero, MarkFox, MatthewWest, MichaelGruninger, MikeBennett, NaicongLi, 
	NancyWiegand, OscarCorcho, PascalHitzler, PaulWitherell, PeterYim, RamSriram, SiewLam, SimonSpero, 
	SundayOjo, TaraAthan, TerryLongstreth, TimFinin, ToddSchneider, UriShani,    (4A7Q)
	 == proceedings ==    (4A7R)
	[9:20] anonymous morphed into CarmenChui    (4A7S)
	[9:22] anonymous morphed into JohannesTrame    (4A7T)
	[9:24] anonymous morphed into OscarCorcho    (4A7U)
	[9:25] anonymous morphed into DhavalThakker    (4A7V)
	[9:26] KrzysztofJanowicz: Hi    (4A7W)
	[9:27] anonymous morphed into PaulWitherell    (4A7X)
	[9:28] MarkFox: I'm here - no Microphone.    (4A7Y)
	[9:29] PascalHitzler: Is the VNC session already online? Seems I can't connect    (4A7Z)
	[9:31] KrzysztofJanowicz: VNC is not working for me (at the moment) 
	... [PeterYim responded verbally: Yes it is working, but strictly optional; so 
	don't worry, if you can't access it for any reason now.]    (4A80)
	[9:40] KrzysztofJanowicz: Usually VNC works for me but not this time. Anyway, we can just download the slides.    (4A81)
	[9:31] anonymous morphed into ConradBeaulieu    (4A82)
	[9:34] anonymous morphed into LesMorgan    (4A83)
	[9:36] anonymous morphed into BartGajderowicz    (4A84)
	[9:37] OscarCorcho: that's strange    (4A85)
	[9:37] OscarCorcho: I was unmuted    (4A86)
	[9:37] OscarCorcho: Sorry, I was able to speak before. I will call again    (4A87)
	[9:37] MatthewWest: You need *7 on your Skype keypad to unmute yourself    (4A88)
	[9:37] AmandaVizedom: OscarCorcho, try *7    (4A89)
	[9:37] Jaana Takis morphed into JaanaTakis    (4A8A)
	[9:38] anonymous2 morphed into LamarHenderson    (4A8B)
	[9:38] PeterYim: are you on the call yet, Oscar?    (4A8C)
	[9:39] AmandaVizedom: Someone who is unmuted is creating some background noise (typing, paper-shuffling)    (4A8D)
	[9:41] PeterYim: == KrzysztofJanowicz starts the session ... see slides under: 
	http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2014_03_20#nid4A0E    (4A8E)
	[9:43] anonymous1 morphed into BobbinTeegarden    (4A8F)
	[9:44] PeterYim: @anonymous: (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top 
	center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName    (4A8G)
	[9:46] PeterYim: == OscarCorcho presenting ...    (4A8H)
	[9:53] anonymous1 morphed into SimonSpero    (4A8I)
	[9:55] anonymous1 morphed into DennisPierson    (4A8J)
	[9:59] anonymous1 morphed into TimFinin    (4A8K)
	[9:55] AndreaWesterinen: [ref. OscarCorcho's slide#5] +1 for starting from Excel. It is pretty easy 
	to write a converter from Excel data to RDF/OWL.    (4A8L)
	[9:59] SimonSpero: @AndreaWesterinen: new linked-csv activity underway at W3    (4A8M)
	[9:59] AmandaVizedom: Starting from excel (as per Oscar's slide 5) is often done and can be very 
	useful, BUT things go awry when people forget that semantics are not explicit or enforced in entry. 
	For example, I've seen folks send a group of domain experts off to build an initial concept capture 
	using an excel template. The results vary widely in how different groups interpret the semantics of 
	the template, and there isn't anything in excel-as-development-environment to help. Working *with* 
	an ontologist, it's not so bad, as that person can be on the lookout for semantic drift.    (4A8N)
	[10:01] AndreaWesterinen: @AmandaVizedom [9:59] +1 regarding completeness and consistency, but the 
	Excel is a start, not the end. That is why I have converted to RDF/OWL and then continued from there.    (4A8O)
	[10:04] AmandaVizedom: @AndreaWesterinen [10:01] -- agree. The real messes I've seen result not from 
	using excel early, but from thinking that because SMEs know how to use it, they can use it to 
	document their concepts in an ontology-friendly or conversion-friendly way, without help.    (4A8P)
	[9:59] DhavalThakker: ROO ( available at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/confluence/ ) is a tool 
	specifically designed to work with non Ontology-savvy audience.    (4A8Q)
	[10:00] anonymous1 morphed into CarolBean    (4A8R)
	[9:59] KrzysztofJanowicz: [ref. OscarCorcho's slide#7] +1 on late reuse    (4A8S)
	[10:01] AmandaVizedom: +1 on postponing reuse until after first capture. Same with in-depth 
	specification of out-of-domain concepts (time, for example). Placeholders that get replaced or 
	aligned later will let the conversation continue *within* the experts' normal cognitive space.    (4A8T)
	[10:03] SimonSpero: There's a step to create between competency questions and user stories    (4A8U)
	[10:04] DhavalThakker: [re. OscarCorcho's slide#11] obvious question is why *five* :-)    (4A8V)
	[10:08] SimonSpero: @DhavalThakker: 
	http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2009/01/15/the-right-or-wrong-size-for-a/ ... < 20, > 8?    (4A8W)
	[10:08] DhavalThakker: Thanks SimonSpero    (4A8X)
	[10:06] anonymous1 morphed into JoanneLuciano    (4A8Y)
	[10:05] SimonSpero: create competency questions from user stories (as an instrument designer I want 
	to be able to be able to represent calibration data    (4A8Z)
	[10:08] DhavalThakker: [re. OscarCorcho's slide#13] "Rec6: Just work with text patterns, and guide 
	them to write good term definitions" - Agree. Can this be Controlled Natural Language (CNL)?    (4A90)
	[10:10] SimonSpero: ACE    (4A91)
	[10:10] SimonSpero: If it loads into protege it loaded into protege    (4A92)
	[10:14] AndreaWesterinen: @SimonSpero [10:10] I have found ACE to be way too controlled and 
	requiring obvious info to be useful for normal people.    (4A93)
	[10:20] SimonSpero: @Andrea: yes and no :) Using a more ambiguous grammar, with semantic 
	disambiguation would be better for most, but editor support made a big difference    (4A94)
	[10:21] SimonSpero: (For entry. Comprehension was good).    (4A95)
	[10:22] AndreaWesterinen: @SimonSpero [10:20] Agree. Editor support could make a huge difference. 
	Also need reverse verbalization support.    (4A96)
	[10:22] SimonSpero: If only there was a common sense knowledge base to start from - 
	https://github.com/Kaljurand/owl-verbalizer    (4A97)
	[10:25] AndreaWesterinen: @SimonSpero [10:22] Thanks. Will check it out.    (4A98)
	[10:11] DhavalThakker: @SimonSpero yes, ACE. But ROO is better ( 
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/confluence/ ). We have developed it in Leeds :-)    (4A99)
	[10:18] AmandaVizedom: @DhavalThakker [10:11] Checking out ROO. Thanks for tip. [Note that end 
	punctuation got taken up into link in your comment]    (4A9A)
	[10:11] AmandaVizedom: Regarding use of text patterns: Multiple projects over many years now have 
	also found a sweet spot in form-based or diagram-based entry tools that are customized by an 
	ontologist, for particular sets of SMEs & elicitation cases, and generate the formal ontology under 
	the hood without showing it to the SMEs. This can be less lossy,    (4A9B)
	[10:12] SimonSpero: Owlapi fixes a lot of broken stuff behind the curtain. Working to make these 
	fixes more noisy in version4    (4A9C)
	[10:13] MatthewWest: On reuse, you need to establish your requirements first. Otherwise you do not 
	know if reuse is appropriate.    (4A9D)
	[10:13] PeterYim: == DhavalThakker presenting ...    (4A9E)
	[10:16] JoanneLuciano: cute smiley face (the slide layout)    (4A9F)
	[10:24] AmandaVizedom: Aside regarding DhavalThakker's slide 6: I think that similar work will be 
	useful at the scale of culture and communications within communities of practice and organizations 
	as well. This is based on my experiences with large, cross-community, cross-domain projects, in 
	which these variations are quite apparent and must be handled somehow. "Same" community becomes 
	culturally different community over time, as well.    (4A9G)
	[10:29] anonymous1 morphed into UriShani    (4A9H)
	[10:33] ... UriShani: when did this started?    (4A9I)
	[10:33] ... MatthewWest: An hour ago. Daylight savings has come in in the US.    (4A9J)
	[10:34] AmandaVizedom: re @DhavalThakker's slide 15 -- nice, clean example of one way an ontology 
	can be fine in principle but not fit for purpose, in a way that potential users would want to know. 
	In a way this about levels of abstraction, also granularity. I'm thinking about this from 
	perspective of upcoming hackathon project to model characteristics of ontologies that are relevant 
	to fitness evaluation. Wondering whether it might work (well enough?) to specify "grains" in various 
	ways. Not looking for answer here, but I hope others who think this is interesting might join the hackathon. :-)    (4A9K)
	[10:35] GaryBergCross: Nice example of semantic content reuse in DBPedia.    (4A9L)
	[10:36] MatthewWest: And seeking to automate annotation is a good approach to overcoming bottlenecks.    (4A9M)
	[10:38] JoanneLuciano: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18416669    (4A9N)
	[10:38] JoanneLuciano: OMICS. 2008 Jun;12(2):129-36. doi: 10.1089/omi.2008.0016. Habitat-Lite: a GSC 
	case study based on free text terms for environmental metadata. Hirschman L1, Clark C, Cohen KB, Mardis S, 
	Luciano J, Kottmann R, Cole J, Markowitz V, Kyrpides N, Morrison N, Schriml LM, Field D; Novo Project.    (4A9O)
	[10:39] JoanneLuciano: Estimate that the terms in the initial version of Habitat-Lite would provide 
	useful labels for over 60% of the kinds of information found in the GenBank isolation_source field, 
	and around 85% of the terms in the GOLD habitat field.    (4A9P)
	[10:40] JoanneLuciano: my comment is more technical (and abstract) with respect not to culture but 
	to how the ontology is being developed and more the evaluation.    (4A9Q)
	[10:40] PeterYim: == JohannesTrame presenting on behalf of PeterHaase ...    (4A9R)
	[10:42] HaroldBoley: http://www.optique-project.eu/    (4A9S)
	[10:48] ... PeterYim: [ JohannesTrame's voice line dropped at 10:46; after calling back in - 
	resumption of JohannesTrame's presentation - slide#3 "platform layer"]    (4A9T)
	[11:04] anonymous1 morphed into MariaHerrero    (4A9U)
	[11:05] GaryBergCross: Thanks for a good slide on Reuse that Track A can leverage!    (4A9V)
	[11:05] MichaelGruninger: @JohannesTrame: what are some of the specific ontologies that you have 
	designed within this framework? How have you reused these ontologies across clients?    (4A9W)
	[11:06] OscarCorcho: [JohannesTrame-PeterHaase: slide 18] In my opinion, we should not forget that 
	it is not only about reusing other ontologies, but also allowing that the one that you create can be 
	reused (e.g., in my examples, across the open data portals community in Spain)    (4A9X)
	[11:07] GaryBergCross: "Software engineers tend to have preference for 'theirown' solutions" This 
	generalizes way beyond SWE or data engineers or engineers as a whole. It more or less true of most of us.    (4A9Y)
	[11:08] MikeBennett: @JohannesTrame-PeterHaase on slide 19 re-use of ontologies: given these are 
	from industry verticals, what experiences do you have in common abstractions between these 
	ontologies e.g. if music ontology and conference ontology may have concepts in common?    (4A9Z)
	[11:09] PeterYim: == Q & A and Open Discussion ...    (4AA0)
	[10:47] LeoObrst: RE: controlled natural language: in addition to the usual suspects, EdBarkmeyer of 
	NIST and FabianNeuhaus (when he was at NIST) were working on a controlled language on top of Common 
	Logic (and a CL reasoner). I don't know the final state of their effort.    (4AA1)
	[11:07] SimonSpero: @LeoObrst: [10:47] Published version of TobiasKuhn's survey of CNL is finally 
	out : http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/COLI_a_00168    (4AA2)
	[11:10] SimonSpero: @LeoObrst: Final report on NIST effort (RECON) is at 
	http://www.nist.gov/manuscript-publication-search.cfm?pub_id=911267    (4AA3)
	[11:16] LeoObrst: @SimonSpero: Thanks!    (4AA4)
	[11:11] AmandaVizedom: [re. KrzysztofJanowicz's verbal question for OscarCorcho's slide#14] 
	Regarding the domain & range disuse view: I have run into this occasionally, and think it is bad 
	practice and is based on a misdiagnosis...    (4AA5)
	[11:11] KrzysztofJanowicz: yes, instead of local scopes    (4AA6)
	[11:12] MatthewWest: @AmandaVizedom [11:11] I agree. The underlying problem is that the domain and 
	range are set more restrictively than is really the case.    (4AA7)
	[11:12] OscarCorcho: @AmandaVizedom: I agree    (4AA8)
	[11:14] KrzysztofJanowicz: very good example    (4AA9)
	[11:15] MikeBennett: Summarizing @AmandaVizedom: sometimes a property is asserted at too detailed a 
	level, but the opposite practice of removing domain and range altogether is also a bad practice.    (4AAA)
	[11:15] JoanneLuciano: To add to Amanda's comment, about including domain and range, I agree. It's 
	nice too when documentation is included in the ontology (in the definition / comment)    (4AAB)
	[11:06] MatthewWest: [re. JohannesTrame-PeterHaase slide 18] We need to remember that reuse is not 
	an end in itself, but a possible means of delivering a solution quicker and cheaper.    (4AAC)
	[11:11] GaryBergCross: @MatthewWest On this issue of reuse, it is not an end in itself, but IF there 
	are good things to leverage it would help get towards standardization. In addition if one finds that 
	something is not reusable, stating the defects helps the field.    (4AAD)
	[11:15] MatthewWest: @GaryBergCross [11:11]: Quite. Reuse can reduce the cost because you do not 
	have to redevelop. It can also help increase quality, reuse tends to get rid of bugs. Finally, if 
	you have integration requirements across applications, then using the same ontology for both will 
	reduce the costs of interfacing. These are all however ends, which reuse alone is not.    (4AAE)
	[11:15] GaryBergCross: Ideas like domain and range are seductive since they seem to have a good 
	cost-benefit ratio. Little effort to get what seems like an extension to the model.    (4AAF)
	[11:16] AmandaVizedom: It is recommended as a supposed fix for the frequent occurance of properties 
	that are not represented at a correct and consistent level of generality. It is sometimes as simple 
	as the name of the property being too general (e.g."controls" instead of "controllsFinancially"). 
	Sometimes it is more complicated...    (4AAG)
	[11:17] GaryBergCross: @Mathew. Yes, good reuse affords some ends such as quality and is a means to 
	these, but not a end in itself.    (4AAH)
	[11:17] KrzysztofJanowicz: @GaryBergCross: I agree. Especially when it comes to patterns careless (too 
	restrictive) use of global domain and range is dangerous. thus, I prefer local domain and range definitions.    (4AAI)
	[11:17] GaryBergCross: On domain and range, one might ask what are these for the Competency Questions.    (4AAJ)
	[11:18] KrzysztofJanowicz: +o    (4AAK)
	[11:18] AmandaVizedom: ... An appropriate correction, at minimum, is to apply a bit of discipline in 
	identifying what is the specificity of the property intended, naming and labeling it in a way that 
	reflects that and setting a domain and range appropriately to that.    (4AAL)
	[11:22] AmandaVizedom: Going beyond that (my [11:18]), it is also good practice to evaluate whether 
	you can define a narrow property that you need immediately as a subPropertyOf a general property 
	that already exists or that you can also create. This helps to define your specific property more 
	clearly, as well as creating or connecting to reusable content.    (4AAM)
	[11:18] MikeBennett: My own view: given the intended meaning of a concept, it should surely set the 
	domain (and maybe range) which corresponds to the meaning of the concept, e.g. a property that is 
	explicitly about contracts should have a domain of Contract. But as @MatthewWest says this require 
	imagination so that when you think about the meaning a property you think about all the things it 
	can be a property of and all the kinds of thing it can be framed in terms of - creating a 
	sub-property or a restriction as appropriate for the concept you were originally thinking of.    (4AAN)
	[11:19] MichaelGruninger: I'm a little perplexed why domain/range constraints are so problematic. 
	They arise quite naturally from any UML class diagram ...    (4AAO)
	[11:21] MatthewWest: @MichaelGruninger [11:19]: Yes, and these mistakes are routinely made in those 
	diagrams, with relationships being stated at a lower level of abstraction than is really true. For 
	example, an ontology for equipment, may say that one type of equipment must have another type of 
	equipment as a part, but there are other things than equipment for which this is true.    (4AAP)
	[11:21] UriShani: doman/range is better than using restrictions.    (4AAQ)
	[11:21] SimonSpero: @MichaelGruninger: The problem is partly what they constrain (the models)    (4AAR)
	[11:22] SimonSpero: @MichaelGruninger: where those words are opposite of what most non-specialists think    (4AAS)
	[11:23] MikeBennett: @MichaelGruninger in FIBO we started out with what's on the corresponding UML 
	class diagrams, and created a deep subsumption hierarchy of properties. This wasn't ideal for OWL 
	usage since in many cases the multiple properties represented the same meaning with some changes to 
	range. THe balance we are trying to aim for is to have a separate property only when there is an 
	identifiably new meaning in play. However if I'm honest we haven't achieved that in the current 
	version (someone decided to promote loads of properties to have no domain or range!!)    (4AAT)
	[11:24] KrzysztofJanowicz: MikeBennett [11:23], I agree    (4AAU)
	[11:23] LeoObrst: @AmandaVizedom [11:22]: actually, we use Events and States as classes, both for 
	NLP and other uses, and so will have a Stative like Possess, which is generic but has local property 
	restrictions for generic thematic participants (doing the job of domains/ranges), then have more 
	specific events/states under these with more specialized property restrictions.    (4AAV)
	[11:23] SimonSpero: or vice versa    (4AAW)
	[11:24] SimonSpero: [user stories to competency stories    (4AAX)
	[11:24] SimonSpero: BDD    (4AAY)
	[11:24] AmandaVizedom: @MichaelGruninger "[11:19] I'm a little perplexed why domain/range 
	constraints are so problematic" ... The problem is worst in OWL because people frequently 
	misunderstand the effect of domain and range there. I have only seen this disuse recommendation 
	there, perhaps because it is harder there (than in more expressive languages) to say what you mean 
	to say about domain and range.    (4AAZ)
	[11:26] KrzysztofJanowicz: @AmandaVizedom: yes because in OWL they have an inferential semantics and 
	most non-DL conceptual modellers do not know that and think of them as constraints. This makes their 
	usage difficult and often problematic    (4AB0)
	[11:35] AmandaVizedom: @KrzystofJanowicz [11:26], yes, the constraint vs type-inference consequences 
	are a big source of confusion. IMHO it is exacerbated by the difficulty of creating the 
	constraint-like d/r in OWL, versus other languages. In some languages, there are simply alternative 
	properties to use depending on which type of assertion you mean to make (see schema:domainIncludes 
	or Cycl arg constraints for example.    (4AB1)
	[11:35] KrzysztofJanowicz: @AmandaVizedom: yes, I agree    (4AB2)
	[11:36] SimonSpero: @amandaVizedom: There's also N-BOXes which are attempts to add NAF to OWL    (4AB3)
	[11:36] SimonSpero: see: http://trowl.eu/    (4AB4)
	[11:26] MichaelGruninger: My point is that the discussion of domain/range is part of the ontological 
	analysis phase of ontology design, but that it is not some new concept that is foreign to someone 
	who knows UML class diagrams.    (4AB5)
	[11:27] AmandaVizedom: See this G+ post from BernardVatant this morning, and the related comments 
	(on domain range specification in LOV vocabularies)    (4AB6)
	[11:27] AmandaVizedom: https://plus.google.com/114406186864069390644/posts/D3kkqNCoQZ9    (4AB7)
	[11:38] KrzysztofJanowicz: Thanks for sharing the link to BernardVatant's blog entry. I agree with his conclusions.    (4AB8)
	[11:28] UriShani: About domain/range and restrictions: you can conclude what is a range/domain from 
	a restriction, but without at least saying what is the domain/range of a property, how can you relate 
	concepts with one another? So I'd say that domain/range is a minimum to imply some structure on an ontolgy.    (4AB9)
	[11:28] SimonSpero: http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/presentations/introduction-to-user-stories    (4ABA)
	[11:30] ... GaryBergCross: Following all these interesting links is going to take the rest of my day :-)    (4ABB)
	[11:30] ... UriShani: what day? it is night already!    (4ABC)
	[11:30] ... SimonSpero: UriShani: restrictions on Thing or Nothing    (4ABD)
	[11:32] ... SimonSpero: UriShani: UTC+2, meet UTC-4    (4ABE)
	[11:32] ... GaryBergCross: @Uri You have till "tomorrow"    (4ABF)
	[11:33] ... UriShani: :)    (4ABG)
	[11:33] ... SimonSpero: UriShani: (was easier when I working at Technion, as family who weren't in 
	UK were in herzliya pituach or jerusalem :)    (4ABH)
	[11:34] GaryBergCross: Culture is a suitable topic but we should expect small steps as you say. Do 
	you leverage the D & S pattern?    (4ABI)
	[11:34] PeterYim: ... [DhavalThakker introduces the coordinator of the IMREAL Project] VaniaDimitrova 
        who gave verbal remarks extending on some of the points DhavalThakker was making about "culture" and
        concedes that there are still a lot of open questions    (4ABJ)
	[11:37] DhavalThakker: sorry we (DhavalThakker and VaniaDimitrova) got disconnected.    (4ABK)
	[11:35] PeterYim: @ALL: as announced by our Symposium co-chairs, Professor TimFinin and Dr. Ram 
	Sriram yesterday, our Apr 28~29 Symposium (at NSF in Greater Washington DC) is now open for 
	registration. Please register yourself ASAP, as capacity is limited - see: 
	http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2014/WorkshopRegistration ... Note that new 
	information about the availability (until Apr-4) of hotel reservation block (with preferred rates) 
	has been posted!    (4ABL)
	[11:35] PeterYim: @ALL: Please mark your calendars and reserve this time, every Thursday, for the 
	OntologySummit2014 virtual panel session series. In particular ... Session-11 will be up next 
	Thursday - Thu 2014.03.27 - OntologySummit2014: "Track D: Tackling the Variety Problem in Big Data - 
	II" *** Again, please pay special attention to the start-time (9:30am PDT), as this week is still 
	among the tricky ones, when N.America is in Summer time, Europe is still in Winter time, and lots of 
	other regions don't do daylight saving time at all! *** - see developing details at: 
	http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2014_03_27 ... the start-time fopr various 
	time-zones will be clearly posted there    (4ABM)
	[11:35] PeterYim: @org-comm members, Reminder to those in the organizing committee, our next meeting 
	(n.09) is coming up tomorrow - Fri 2014.03.21 - see: 
	http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2014/GettingOrganized#nid49M7    (4ABN)
	[11:35] PeterYim: great session!    (4ABO)
	[11:35] LeoObrst: Thanks, all! Very good session.    (4ABP)
	[11:35] UriShani: thanks!!    (4ABQ)
	[11:37] DhavalThakker: thanks all    (4ABR)
	[11:38] KrzysztofJanowicz: bye bye    (4ABS)
	[11:35] PeterYim: -- session ended: 11:32 am PDT --    (4ABT)
 -- end of in-session chat-transcript --    (4A1G)

Additional Resources:    (4A1N)

For the record ...    (4A1V)

How To Join (while the session is in progress)    (4A1W)