SemanticWiki mini-series Session-3 - Thu 11-Dec-2008    (1PIT)

Conference Call Details    (1PJ2)

Attendees    (1PK4)

SemanticWiki mini-series Background    (1PKF)

The Semantic Wiki mini-series a 6-month mini-series comprising Talks, Panel Discussions and Online Discourse. The series is co-organized by FZI Karlsruhe, Mayo Clinic, Ontolog, RPI Tetherless World Constellation and Salzburg Research, Austria. This represents a collaborative effort between members from academia, research, software engineering, semantic web and ontology communities. The 6-month mini-series intends to bring together developers, administrators and users of semantic wikis, and provide a platform where they can conveniently share ideas and insights. Through a series of (mainly virtual) talks, panel discussions, online discourse and even face-to-face meetings, participants will survey the state-of-the-art in semantic wiki technology and get exposure to exemplary use cases and applications. Together, they will study trends, challenges and the outlook for semantic wikis, and explore opportunities for collaboration in the very promising technology, approach or philosophy which people has labeled "semantic wiki."    (1PKG)

This series of virtual events will dovetail into the face-to-face workshop: "Social Semantic Web: Where Web 2.0 Meets Web 3.0" at the AAAI Spring Symposium (March 23-25, 2009 at Stanford, California, USA - see: ).    (1PKH)

See: our SemanticWiki mini-series homepage and the developing program for the rest of the series.    (1PKI)

Agenda & Proceedings:    (1PKJ)

Session Tile: MediaWiki, SemanticMediaWiki, Extensions, Add-on's and other Enhancements    (1QJO)

Session Abstract:    (1QJP)

by MaxVoelkel    (1PKK)

The purpose of this session is to introduce and present in depth the SemanticMediaWiki extension and the universe of extensions to this extension: What can be achieved with them and how data is used in them.    (1PKL)

Questions and Discussion captured from the chat session:    (1PKA)

Edited transcript ...    (1PKB)

 PatrickNagel: hi    (1QK5)
 YaronKoren: Hello!    (1QK6)
 PatrickNagel: I think i'm in the worst timezone  2:15 in the morning over here.    (1QK7)
 PatrickNagel: *drinking coffee*    (1QK8)
 YaronKoren: Oh yeah, I forgot youre in Shanghai...    (1QK9)
 DanielHerzig: Hi    (1QKA)
 PatrickNagel: let me try this voip stuff    (1QKB)
 MarkusKroetzsch: works well for me    (1QKC)
 PatrickNagel: is there a way to call in via sip? probably not...    (1QKD)
 MarkusKroetzsch: This thing costs 20cent per minute!    (1QKE)
 PatrickNagel: whoa    (1QKF)
 ChristophLange: hi all    (1QKG)
 MaxVoelkel: Hello everybody    (1QKH)
 TobiasKuhn: hi everyone!    (1QKI)
 DanielHerzig: @Markus, did you use the local number to dial in?    (1QKJ)
 MarkusKroetzsch: yes    (1QKK)
 MarkusKroetzsch: but via Skype    (1QKL)
 DanielHerzig: hmm, maybe the US one is even cheaper    (1QKM)
 MarkusKroetzsch: I will try    (1QKN)
 YaronKoren: Oh, so Skype is working? It wasn't last time I tried, two sessions ago.    (1QKO)
 DanielHerzig: its working fine for me right now    (1QKP)
 MarkusKroetzsch: Ah, I am back.    (1QKQ)
 MarkusKroetzsch: Using the US number, it's only 1.7 cents per minute!    (1QKR)
 MaxVoelkel: All slides are here:    (1QKS)
 MaxVoelkel: Thanks to the purple numbers    (1QKT)
 PeterDolog: hi everyone once again    (1QKU)
 GuoqianJiang: Hello, Yaron, Danial and all    (1QKV)
 YaronKoren: Hello!    (1QKW)
 GuoqianJiang: nice to have this smw users gathering after last meeting    (1QKX)
 FrankOlken: Hi, this is  FrankOlken from Arlington, VA.    (1QKY)
 HaroldSolbrig: Hello Frank from Arlington VA.    (1QKZ)
 MaxVoelkel: Demo-Link:    (1QL0)
 DanielHerzig: i can't access snpedia, can you?    (1QL1)
 YaronKoren: It's been very slow in the last few weeks; thankfully, I believe that's not a result of SMW.    (1QL2)
 HaroldSolbrig: Mayo thinks that ChikiPedia is inappropriate - it is a blocked site    (1QL3)
 YaronKoren: They're blocking research.    (1QL4)
 MarkusKroetzsch: The OWL 2 Working Group Wiki is at    (1QL5)
 MarkusKroetzsch: On this page, you can find links to all current documents detailing this language.    (1QL6)
 MarkusKroetzsch: The working group is happy to receive comments on last call documents.    (1QL7)
 MarkusKroetzsch: See for details.    (1QL8)
 ArturoSanchez: yes    (1QL9)
 MarkusKroetzsch: agrees with Yaron here, it is not very convenient to speak for 20min without 
                  any feedback whatsoever ...    (1QLA)
 MarkusKroetzsch: The Google Chart API Yaron mentioned is at    (1QLB)
 MarkusKroetzsch: ... it is not part of SMW, since it needs to send your data to Google, which you may not want.    (1QLC)
 HaroldSolbrig: Yaron - we can do the XML to Template conversion...    (1QLD)
 HaroldSolbrig: Got a generic XSLT transform to do exactly that.    (1QLE)
 DanielHansch: Hi Harold! sounds interesting - you have more info about the xml->forms transformation?    (1QLF)
 Andrew Cowell: Yaron, just a quick thanks for all your work, especially SemanticForms.    (1QLG)
 MaxVoelkel: ***For the next talks: Please try to keep your times very strict***    (1QLH)
 DanielHansch: ok    (1QLI)
 MarkusKroetzsch: Yaron, the XML export you mentioned: wouldn't it be possible to make 
                  a result printer that creates a very similar XML export based on 
                  semantic data (since you mentioned that RDF is not what you needed)?
                  Then you would not have to deal with templates.    (1QLJ)
 YaronKoren: Yes, but that might be unnecessary work, if you have templates.    (1QLK)
 MarkusKroetzsch: True, but handling templates can introduce additional difficulties.    (1QLL)
 YaronKoren: Maybe we should take this offline?    (1QLM)
 MarkusKroetzsch: Yes, let's not start side chats    (1QLN)
 HaroldSolbrig: Hello Daniel - I'll e-mail you something later today.    (1QLO)
 BruceBray: Which page is he on?    (1QLP)
 ChristophLange: still #2    (1QLQ)
 MarkusKroetzsch: You can follow the slides at (password "ontolog")    (1QLR)
 BruceBray: that port blocked for me and many others    (1QLS)
 MaxVoelkel: You can also simply download the PDF presentations    (1QLT)
 MaxVoelkel: link:    (1QLU)
 DanielHerzig: Can I install any mediawiki extensions on smw+?    (1QLV)
 DanielHansch: you can install the halo-extension on top of any mediawiki extension.    (1QLW)
 DanielHerzig: Does smw+ allows extensions the way the regular smw or mediawiki do?    (1QLX)
 DanielHansch: smw+ is intended to be selfcontained and comes with a useful set of extensions.    (1QLY)
 DanielHansch: yes - of course.    (1QLZ)
 MarkusKroetzsch: SMW+ is essentially a "MediaWiki distribution" that bundles related extensions    (1QM0)
 MarkusKroetzsch: so it can be customized like any MediaWiki    (1QM1)
 DanielHansch: i hope my talk was not too packed. i am happy to assist you with any inquiry    (1QM2)
 MarkGreaves: Daniel, your talk was definitely packed, but it was really a fun tour through SMW+!    (1QM3)
 DanielHansch: thanks, Mark    (1QM4)
 MarkusKroetzsch: How does this feature relate to SMW's Concepts?    (1QM5)
 Jason Zou: Daniel, I just installed Halo extension yesterday. And I liked it immediately. Good work    (1QM6)
 DanielHansch: Technically, there is no relation.    (1QM7)
 DanielHansch: Let me ask Philipp how this relates "conceptually".    (1QM8)
 GuoqianJiang: Daniel, is this simple rule extension available in next release?    (1QM9)
 MarkusKroetzsch: But concepts are "derived categories" too:    (1QMA)
 MarkusKroetzsch: ok, let's do that    (1QMB)
 DanielHansch: yes - we are planning to have that in the next release 1.5 - as an separate 
               but compatible extension.    (1QMC)
 HaroldSolbrig: How many entities are in the db that you've applied the rules to?  
                Are there issues w/ computational complexity?    (1QMD)
 DanielHansch: We have OntoBroker sitting in the backend of SMW and processing the rules.    (1QME)
 DanielHansch: OntoBroker is the powerful reasoning engine out there (according to mass-processing tests).    (1QMF)
 DanielHansch: So, in the context of SMW, we did not (yet) reach any limit.    (1QMG)
 DanielHansch: But, of course, OntoBroker will choke if your rule base is faulty.    (1QMH)
 DanielHansch: Therefore we are planning for a "safety belt" coming with Rules and SMW. 
               (e.g. debugging, unit tests for rules, etc)    (1QMI)
 BruceBray: Ken your voice is very light, can you get closer to your mic?    (1QMJ)
 MaxVoelkel: Wow, this transclusion is really cool!    (1QMK)
 DanielHansch: Jason: thank you! Is your wiki publically accessible?    (1QML)
 MarkusKroetzsch: I wonder whether this modelled OWL is also processed (e.g. in query answering), 
                  or if it is just stored (which is also a valid goal, of course).    (1QMM)
 GuoqianJiang: what's the difference between Rabbit and Ace language?    (1QMN)
 MarkusKroetzsch: Note that there is also the ACE-Wiki project, using ACE as the basis for a semantic wiki.    (1QMO)
 TobiasKuhn: Rabbit is designed specifically for OWL. ACE is a general purpose 
             controlled natural language that is more expressive. 
             A subset of ACE can be mapped to OWL.    (1QMP)
 YaronKoren: This isn't in response to anything, but it seems like the difference 
             between the Jie / RPI's rules/modeling approach and Ontoprise's approach 
             is that the former is structured as semantic properties, while the latter 
             has its own database tables, if I understand things correctly.    (1QMQ)
 TobiasKuhn: People interested in controlled natural languages should also have a look 
             at AceWiki:    (1QMR)
 MarkusKroetzsch: Re Yaron: I think RPI's approach is about *meta modelling*, i.e. storing 
                  and editing rules and OWL in a semantic wiki, while Ontoprise's approach 
                  is to augment the data of the wiki using rules as additional *modelling* feature.    (1QMS)
 YaronKoren: "PSMW" looks exactly like PMW.    (1QMT)
 PeterYim: @YaronKoren - ref your "PSMW" looks exactly like PMW - Yes, PMW is MW with pmwx installed 
                         ... PSMW is SMW with pmwx installed (or more exactly, PSMW is MW with SMW and pmwx installed)    (1QMU)
 YaronKoren: Peter - yes, but how is it different from PMW with any other set of extensions installed?    (1QMV)
 PeterYim: pwmx provides *addressibility* not semantics ... it is meant to work with and 
           complement the other semantic tools    (1QMW)
 KenBaclawski: @YaronKoren: The intention is to make it look exactly like SMW with PMWX installed. 
               However, RDF statements can now have a subject that has finer granularity than 
               just a page.  This allows finer granularity for queries and reasoning.    (1QMX)
 YaronKoren: Ken: was that shown in the slides?    (1QMY)
 TobiasKuhn: @JieBao: is this system that you describe available somehow? online or as a download?    (1QMZ)
 Stephen Larson:  JieBao.. very nice presentation.  Is the code behind your presentation open source 
                  or available somewhere?  perhaps i have missed the link but i did not see it.    (1QN0)
 JieBao: our work are mainly wiki templates, and they are available at the example links    (1QN1)
 PhilippZaltenbach: @Jie: what reasoner are you using for doing inferencing?    (1QN2)
 TobiasKuhn: ... or can you give a pointer to a publication that discusses this system?    (1QN3)
 ChristophLange: @Markus, @Jie, could you explain the difference between the way 
                 the "concept modeling" extension creates OWL and does reasoning, 
                 and the default SMW way?    (1QN4)
 MarkusKroetzsch: I don not know the concept modelling extensions. SMW just follows 
                  the OWL semantics (for the features it supports).    (1QN5)
 JieBao: @ TobiasKuhn: it is on    (1QN6)
 MaxVoelkel: +++ NEWS: We just got notification that a fourth workshop on semantic wikis 
             has been accepted at ESWC2009. Find all relevant links (and also links to 
             *the* mailing list for the semantic wiki community) at +++    (1QN7)
 MarkusKroetzsch: The demo link in Peter's talk is:    (1QN8)
 ChristophLange: @ MaxVoelkel: nice    (1QN9)
 JieBao: @Stephen Larson: links are on the slides    (1QNA)
 JieBao: @ PhilippZaltenbach: inference is encoded in semantic template so 
         we do not use an external reasoner    (1QNB)
 MarkusKroetzsch: @ JieBao: But how can this inference be complete (as templates 
                  are computationally so much weaker than OWL)?    (1QNC)
 MaxVoelkel:    (1QND)
 ChristophLange: @JieBao: Is it the case that your extension is just a user-friendly 
                 frontend to SMW's OWL support, or is it different?    (1QNE)
 JieBao: @ ChristophLange: the OWL extension is so far just an editor and 
         controlled natural language interface. We haven't done inference 
         about OWL yet, but it is in the plan.    (1QNF)
 YaronKoren: This "Ask the Wiki" extension is pretty neat.    (1QNG)
 DanielHerzig: Thanks    (1QNH)
 ChristophLange: @Daniel / Peter: I'd suggest that you display the original query string 
                 on the "step 2" page as well    (1QNI)
 DanielHansch: very very nice!! congrats!    (1QNJ)
 YaronKoren: I hope it gets released soon!    (1QNK)
 PatrickNagel: me too    (1QNL)
 JieBao: @Markus Krtzsch: I admit it is not complete    (1QNM)
 MarkusKroetzsch: @ JieBao: OK, that clarifies things for me. It would be very difficult 
                  to provide complete OWL+rules reasoning (not just in a wiki).    (1QNN)
 ChristophLange: @Jie, @Markus: thanks, I understood    (1QNO)
 Chris Mitchell: Question for  YaronKoren RE: Semantic Forms: What scripting language 
                 is used for developing the form template via the "Editing Form:Event" example? 
                 Maybe Groovy, Velocity or simple wiki syntax?    (1QNP)
 MarkusKroetzsch: It is described on this page:    (1QNQ)
 DanielHansch: Ontoprise is logging off - thank you very much for organising this session! 
               greetings, daniel and philipp.    (1QNR)
 ChristophLange: thanks for your cool presentations!    (1QNS)
 MaxVoelkel: Merry X-Mas to ontoprise!    (1QNT)
 GuoqianJiang: thanks, daniel    (1QNU)
 MaxVoelkel: ... if there are further questions, just raise your hands    (1QNV)
 PatrickNagel: i'm leaving, too. thanks a lot for the great talks and the well organised event!    (1QNW)
 ChristophLange: @ MaxVoelkel: but isn't your purple/semantics idea quite similar to template transclusion 
                 in SMW? If you include 20 templates into a single page, then the resulting page 
                 is similar to a page with 20 purple numbers (or say "fragment IDs") -- so the challenge 
                 is IMHO to provide an adequate GUI for accessing annotations of such fragments    (1QNX)
 anonymous2: Question for everyone: Has anyone considered integration with the Nepomuk Semantic Desktop?    (1QNY)
 ChristophLange: @anonymous2: Who are you?    (1QNZ)
 MarkusKroetzsch: @anonymous2: that would be a nice project, but I am not aware of anyone pursuing 
                  this actively now.    (1QO0)
 MarkusKroetzsch: ... you can ask this question to Max, he is involved in Nepomuk    (1QO1)
 JieBao: @anonymous2: is there is demo (or screen shots) available for Nepomuk?    (1QO2)
 anonymous2: Please excuse me for not speaking vocally... riding noisy public transit    (1QO3)
 ChristophLange: KDE 4    (1QO4)
 MarkusKroetzsch: @Jie: Nepomuk is available for download, and part of KDE    (1QO5)
 MaxVoelkel: Integration of what exactly?    (1QO6)
 anonymous2: APIs and such for data    (1QO7)
 ChristophLange: maybe a wiki where you can annotate/import local files?    (1QO8)
 anonymous2: Thank you very much. This has answered my question just fine.    (1QO9)
 anonymous2: I am very interested in the XWiki Help Desk    (1QOA)
 TobiasKuhn: bye everone! it was a very interesting session!    (1QOB)
 MarkusKroetzsch says good bye to everyone!    (1QOC)
 MaxVoelkel: maybe we can keep the chat room open for some while to not kill all discussions    (1QOD)
 anonymous2: Would you believe I am doing all of this from my mobile phone?    (1QOE)
 EdDodds: Does anyone interact with any semantic efforts in the Joomla or Drupal communities? just curious...    (1QOF)
 EdDodds: @PeterYim I've posted the url to your PN presentation in the Drupal semantic web 
          developers group. We'll see if that sparks any interest...    (1QOG)
 PeterYim: Thank you, Ed.    (1QOH)
 PeterYim: Great session ... thanks, everyone ... bibi!    (1QOI)

Session ended 2008.12.11-1:05pm PST    (1QJU)

Audio Recording of this Session    (1QJV)

For the record ...    (1SKZ)

How To Join (while the session is in progress)    (1PRG)