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RE: [uos-convene] Endorsements

To: "Upper Ontology Summit convention" <uos-convene@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "West, Matthew R SIPC-DFD/321" <matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:14:25 -0000
Message-id: <A94B3B171A49A4448F0CEEB458AA661F02FC9DD7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Dear Michael,    (01)

I basically agree with you. See a couple of comments below.    (02)

Matthew    (03)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: uos-convene-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:uos-convene-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Uschold,
> Michael F
> Sent: 28 February 2006 19:12
> To: Upper Ontology Summit convention
> Subject: RE: [uos-convene] Endorsements
> 
> 
>       "A common upper ontology is essential for achieving affordable
> and scalable semantic interoperability.  Summit participants will
> explore alternative approaches to developing or establishing 
> this common
> upper ontology." 
> 
> As it stands, I cannot endorse this statement for two reasons.
> 1. I don't know that it is 'essential'.
> 2. I don't believe is possible to have a single CUO.
> 
> 
> A lot of people, including me balked at using the term 'essential'
> below. The revised statement is weaker than the original one, 
> and it is
> borderline acceptable, but still may be too strong.     (04)

MW: I agree, and in its weakened form proposed by Jim I was going
to let this pass. What I really think is that a (good) CUO will provide
the most efficient means to integrate different systems/domain 
ontologies. I would prefer it stated in this way because that is
clearer (and my bosses will take more notice).    (05)

> 
> Also, I don't think you will ever get a 'common upper 
> ontology' any more
> than you will ever get a common enterprise ontology or a 
> common ontology
> on any subject among any sufficiently large and diverse group of
> stakeholders.  Will this CUO be 3d or 4d? It cannot be both. Or do you
> mean by CUO, a broader lattice of UOs?    (06)

MW: If it is going to be a Common UO I think it has to be a lattice.
Michael Grunigers recent e-mails I think illustrated how this might
work.
> 
> I have long believed that the best solution for reaching agreement on
> ontologies at any level is:
> 
> * Agree on everything/anything that you can that is uncontentious [or
> contentious only at a superficial level] in terms of the 'things of
> interest'.
> 
> * If you can also agree on the same terms for the things of interest,
> then great. If not, then use different terms and map/record them as
> synonyms.
> 
> * Agree to disagree on other things, when there are good reasons for
> different stakeholders that have different needs (e.g. 3d/4d)
> 
> * where possible, map between the diff 'things of interest' so that a
> user can to the maximal extent possible, enjoy the experience of a
> virtual CEO, even though it is more messy under the bonnet/hood. If a
> lattice of theories works for this, then great.
> 
> What do others think?    (07)

MW: I think that is similar in a human analysis approach to what Michael
Gruniger is proposing. But he wishes to leave out matters of interpretation,
whereas that would be included in what you say.    (08)

MW: I'm not sure about leaving out interpretation. I understand the 
advantages of doing so theoretically, but I think that it would be confusing
for the average punter (and remember, we are not the customers of what
we would be producing).
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Schoening, James R C-E LCMC CIO/G6
> [mailto:James.Schoening@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:13 AM
> To: 'Upper Ontology Summit convention'
> Subject: RE: [uos-convene] Endorsements
> 
> All,
>       
>       How's this sound for a statement supporters could endorse?
> 
>       "A common upper ontology is essential for achieving affordable
> and scalable semantic interoperability.  Summit participants will
> explore alternative approaches to developing or establishing 
> this common
> upper ontology." 
> 
>       The first line is a quote from Steve Ray's draft communique.  
> 
>       We don't have consensus on 'how' to get to this ontology.  This
> summit should explore the alternate approaches and which ones each
> participant is in a position (and willing) to pursue.   
> 
> Jim Schoening
> 
>     
> 
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: uos-convene-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:uos-convene-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> West, Matthew
> R SIPC-DFD/321
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:43 AM
> To: Upper Ontology Summit convention
> Subject: RE: [uos-convene] Endorsements
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> Well I know I can support that since Shell and EPISTLE have been doing
> that for some time now.
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Matthew West
> Reference Data Architecture and Standards Manager Shell International
> Petroleum Company Limited Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom
> 
> Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Mobile: +44 7796 336538
> Email: matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
> http://www.shell.com
> http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: uos-convene-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:uos-convene-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Uschold, 
> > Michael F
> > Sent: 28 February 2006 03:00
> > To: Upper Ontology Summit convention
> > Subject: [uos-convene] Endorsements
> > 
> > 
> > Organizations are being asked to endorse an UO effort.
> > This needs to be precise, if I can possibly get Boeing to sign off.
> > 
> > Here is proposed text that might be workable: 
> > 
> > "We believe that efforts to standardize upper ontologies is 
> valuable."
> > 
> > If we want to say much more, we should have a concise 
> statement of our
> > objective(s) that define the effort that organizations are 
> endorsing.
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
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Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpperOntologySummit    (09)


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