uom-ontology-std
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [uom-ontology-std] What is mass?

To: uom-ontology-std <uom-ontology-std@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Joe Collins <joseph.collins@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:05:59 -0400
Message-id: <4AC365C7.1060709@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Dear Ingvar,    (01)

Assume you have a beam.    (02)

The beam has a length, l, a volume, V, a surface area, A, and a second moment 
of 
area, I.    (03)

The properties l, V/A, and sqrt(sqrt(I)) all have quantity dimension of length.
Are they all of the same kind?    (04)

How do you know? By what process does one decide?    (05)

R/jbc    (06)

ingvar_johansson wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> Here are some answers and comments to some parts of some of yesterday’s
> mails (taken in temporal order)
> ---
> Gunther S: ”Nowhere in my practical experience of working with units in
> the sciences do I ever see a qualification of units.”
> 
> IJ-answer: I firmly believe you, but I think this absence of
> qualifications is due to the fact that in each practical case the context
> automatically creates a qualification as background knowledge. But general
> metrology can have no such pre-given context qualifications.
> ---
> 
> Joe C: “I would not agree that "many units are unambiguously tied only to
> one kind-of-quantity".”
> 
> IJ-answer: Depends on what we mean by ‘many’. Surely, all the six base
> property quantities of the SI are (but not ‘amount of substance’).
> ---
> 
> Matthew W: “Could you give me a unit (or two) that you think only applies
> to one kind-of-quantity, and I'll see if I can identify another?
> 
> IJ-answer: m (length), kg (mass), and t (duration).
> ---
> 
> Gunther S (to Pat H): “so we agree that 1 N.m = 1 N.m when we talk about
> units and there is no such thing as "N.m moment of force" as a unit? 
> There is of course the Quantity moment of force 1 N.m, but the unit is
> still N.m without knowing anything about torque vs. energy.”
> 
> IJ-comment: Every real unit presupposes a scale for a kind-of-quantity; a
> unit with no reference at all to a scale or quantity is meaningless. What
> I have proposed to call a ‘nominal unit’, is a unit that necessarily
> refers to other units, i.e., to real units with scales for
> kinds-of-quantities.
> ---
> 
> Gunther S: “The VIM speaks about Quantities and measurement and a little
> bit about Units. The SI speaks a lot about Units. I don't think that
> either one argues that Units contain the detail of the Quantities.”
> 
> IJ-comment: I think  you are wrong. VIM’s definition 1.9 says: measurement
> unit = real scalar quantity, defined and adopted by convention, with which
> any OTHER QUANTITY OF THE SAME KIND CAN BE COMPARED. Definition 1.10 says:
> base unit = measurement unit that is adopted by convention FOR A BASE
> QUANTITY. The SI brochure says (p. 103): The terms quantity and unit are
> defined in VIM. That is (at least in my interpretation), both VIM and the
> SI are stating the view that ‘Units presuppose the detail of the
> Quantities’. Or in my words, once again: every real unit presupposes a
> scale for a kind-of-quantity.
> ---
> 
> Best,
> Ingvar
> 
> 
> 
>  
> _________________________________________________________________
> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/uom-ontology-std/  
> Subscribe: mailto:uom-ontology-std-join@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> Config/Unsubscribe: 
>http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/uom-ontology-std/  
> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/  
> Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard
>  
> 
>     (07)

-- 
_______________________________
Joseph B. Collins, Ph.D.
Code 5583, Adv. Info. Tech.
Naval Research Laboratory
Washington, DC 20375
(202) 404-7041
(202) 767-1122 (fax)
B34, R221C
_______________________________    (08)

_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/uom-ontology-std/  
Subscribe: mailto:uom-ontology-std-join@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Config/Unsubscribe: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/uom-ontology-std/  
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/  
Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard    (09)

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>