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Re: [ontolog-forum] CNL's and ConLangs

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Rich Cooper" <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 16:03:39 -0700
Message-id: <022801cff303$6adddc90$409995b0$@englishlogickernel.com>

John, you raised some interesting questions, but I can’t read the labeled arcs in your imagery, even after expanding it in Paint:


It would help answer your question if your identified the labels (I see a lot of blurs where text should be), and defined Feynman’s reference to each of those labels, then a paragraph about the Feynman diagram and what physicists use it for, perhaps we could begin to identify some elements of the ontology you propose for the imagery. 


But it’s an interesting idea; thanks,




Rich Cooper


Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com

9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2

From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Bottoms
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:03 AM
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ontolog-forum] CNL's and ConLangs


There have been a few discussions on www.reddit.com about "Constructed Languages". It surprised me that there are such graduate programs. There is also a reference to The Language Creation Society (www.conlang.org) Mostly, these studies apply to artificial natural languages such as Esperanto and Klingon.


Most of the Reddit discussions pertain to whether Constructed Languages are really languages. Some seem to believe that a language must have an evolved history and been in use by a community before it is meat for a linguistics discussion.

The linguistics community has no consensus on an appropriate criteria for acceptance as a language. However, for me, the overall discussion of Constructed Languages seems to touch on Controlled/Constrained Natural Languages. This is important, I believe, because we are in for an extended era of many CNL's as people partition core and technical vocabularies in various ways, trying to satisfy needs for particular disciplines and markets.

Chomsky defines a set of sets of languages that have formal grammars are a hierarchy.

The Chomsky hierarchy

Chomsky Formal Grammar Language Hierarchy


It seems to me that there should be a taxonomy that includes all languages and what I call "language shorthands" such as chemical, math, Feynman diagrams, etc. My question is whether ConLangs, shorthands and CNL's are entities of Chomsky's hierarchy of languages? He seems to say that there must be start and end symbols and these are not represented in mathematics notation. The difficulty with this is that in many shallow/deep constructions, the start and terminal symbols are understood according to some protocol. SGML allows <cr> as a terminal in some cases and  speech is terminated when someone stops talking, or it can be semantically terminated when someone says, "That's all I have to say."

Is there a more complete grammar in existance that includes additional forms of sentences? Should we define a super-set of all languages that is more inclusive such as might be found in semiotics? Finally, would we segregate the taxonomy and its elements in an ontology?

Image result for feynman diagram
A Feynman Diagram

-John Bottoms
 FirstStar Systems
 Concord, MA USA


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