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Re: [ontolog-forum] Dennett on the Darwinism of Memes

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Hassan Aït-Kaci" <hassanaitkaci@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 16:41:02 +0200
Message-id: <51827AFE.8050201@xxxxxxx>
On 5/2/2013 1:35 PM, Kathryn Blackmond Laskey wrote:
 Pat's "supreme being who created the universe" is an "incredibly large and powerful creature." (It seems funny to me to call the supposed creator of all a "creature."  Who created this "creature"?)

Isn't it obvious? ... Man did! ... I do not know (nor care) whether God created Man, but it is a clear undeniable fact that Man created God!

I've been following these exchanges, between amusement and puzzlement, but mostly a sense lf "Oh boy, there we go again! ..." So I couldn't hold it in anymore ... (My apologies to those I may irritate.)

Amusement because, despite the fact that (as Pat duly mentioned), most mainstream religions (Judeo-Christian and Muslim) - which are believed by the vast majority of this planet's human population - have been playing this double-play game for thousands of years. This double-pay, in its essence, is that they refer to their "revealed books" which all state in unambiguous terms inept and infantile "truths" (e.g., "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." - Genesis 1:27), but when one points out the inanity of it all, the answer is, "Ah - but it is only a metaphor ... the true meaning is blah-blah-blah ...". Umm, I see. And you figured it all out, correct?

As John Sowa pointed out, the concept of God as a paternal providence figure that must be feared and respected is natural in a human's life as one evolves from infant to adult. Religions have been essentially a means of mass manipulation using this main concept basing their arguments on intimidation, rewards/threats, for power-keeping purposes over the less educated (e.g., "Commit everything you do to the Lord. Trust him, and he will help you." Psalms 37:5; "Fear the Lord your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name." Deuteronomy 6:13 ). But as the "masses" became relatively less gullible and easy to convince with the simplistic terms very clearly exposed in those religious writings, so the arguments evolved into this "metaphor" - for example, Augustine of Hippo (354 – 430) wrote of the need for reason in interpreting Jewish and Christian scripture, and of much of the Book of Genesis being an extended metaphor (De Genesi ad literam 1:19–20, Chapt. 19 [408], De Genesi ad literam, 2:9).

At any rate, this forum was, I believe [!], about KR (Knowledge Representation) - not about BS (Belief Systems) ... Mind you, I have nothing against developing ontologies of any BS - as long as it is clearly indicates that it is just one among many BS held by various subsets of this planet's human population. Indeed many gods have been invented by many cultures under many forms. This alone is worth documenting. I also think that, for obvious historical reason, such BS have had deep and undeniable impacts on culture at large. Even if one has reached enough reason and mind independence to realize that much of one's culture's BS is ... b.s., it is inextricably intertwined with many deeply ingrained hues and aspects of one's cultural inheritage (personal, familial, emotional) that one cannot altogether wish to get rid of. That in itself must be be part of any sociological ontology.


PS/ Now, if you ask me, "Are you an atheist?" my answer is "I'm a human being." For by stating that one is  an atheist, one must already admit the concept of "god" - if only to deny it.

PPS/ My quoting only from the Bible means in no way that Christians have the exclusivity of such infantile admonitions - the Torah and the Quran are rife with such as well.

PPPS/ Finally, just for the fun of it, please let me share one of my favorite among many from George Carlin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE :-) ... God have mercy on him (and me!)...


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