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On 5/2/2013 1:35 PM, Kathryn Blackmond
Laskey wrote:
Pat's "supreme being who created the universe" is an
"incredibly large and powerful creature." (It seems funny to me to
call the supposed creator of all a "creature." Who created this
"creature"?)
Isn't it obvious? ... Man did! ... I do not know (nor care) whether
God created Man, but it is a clear undeniable fact that Man created
God!
I've been following these exchanges, between amusement and
puzzlement, but mostly a sense lf "Oh boy, there we go again! ..."
So I couldn't hold it in anymore ... (My apologies to those I may
irritate.)
Amusement because, despite the fact that (as Pat duly mentioned),
most mainstream religions (Judeo-Christian and Muslim) - which are
believed by the vast majority of this planet's human population -
have been playing this double-play game for thousands of years. This
double-pay, in its essence, is that they refer to their "revealed
books" which all state in unambiguous terms inept and infantile
"truths" (e.g., "So God created mankind in his own image, in the
image of God he created them; male and female he created them." -
Genesis 1:27), but when one points out the inanity of it all, the
answer is, "Ah - but it is only a metaphor ... the true meaning is
blah-blah-blah ...". Umm, I see. And you figured it all out,
correct?
As John Sowa pointed out, the concept of God as a paternal
providence figure that must be feared and respected is natural in a
human's life as one evolves from infant to adult. Religions have
been essentially a means of mass manipulation using this main
concept basing their arguments on intimidation, rewards/threats, for
power-keeping purposes over the less educated (e.g., "Commit
everything you do to the Lord. Trust him, and he will help you."
Psalms 37:5; "Fear the Lord your God, serve him only and take your
oaths in his name." Deuteronomy 6:13 ). But as the "masses" became
relatively less gullible and easy to convince with the simplistic
terms very clearly exposed in those religious writings, so the
arguments evolved into this "metaphor" - for example, Augustine of
Hippo (354 – 430) wrote of the need for reason in interpreting
Jewish and Christian scripture, and of much of the Book of Genesis
being an extended metaphor (De Genesi ad literam 1:19–20, Chapt. 19
[408], De Genesi ad literam, 2:9).
At any rate, this forum was, I believe [!], about KR (Knowledge
Representation) - not about BS (Belief Systems) ... Mind you, I have
nothing against developing ontologies of any BS - as long as it is
clearly indicates that it is just one among many BS held by various
subsets of this planet's human population. Indeed many gods have
been invented by many cultures under many forms. This alone is worth
documenting. I also think that, for obvious historical reason, such
BS have had deep and undeniable impacts on culture at large. Even if
one has reached enough reason and mind independence to realize that
much of one's culture's BS is ... b.s., it is inextricably
intertwined with many deeply ingrained hues and aspects of one's
cultural inheritage (personal, familial, emotional) that one cannot
altogether wish to get rid of. That in itself must be be part of any
sociological ontology.
-hak
PS/ Now, if you ask me, "Are you an atheist?" my answer is "I'm a
human being." For by stating that one is an atheist, one must
already admit the concept of "god" - if only to deny it.
PPS/ My quoting only from the Bible means in no way that Christians
have the exclusivity of such infantile admonitions - the Torah and
the Quran are rife with such as well.
PPPS/ Finally, just for the fun of it, please let me share one of my
favorite among many from George Carlin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE
:-) ... God have mercy on him (and me!)...
--
-hak
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