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Re: [ontolog-forum] Solving the information federation problem

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "edbark@xxxxxxxx" <edbark@xxxxxxxx>, Paul Brown <pbrown@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "simf-rfp@xxxxxxx" <simf-rfp@xxxxxxx>, "jamsden@xxxxxxxxxx" <jamsden@xxxxxxxxxx>
From: Duane Nickull <dnickull@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:06:08 -0700
Message-id: <CAD5BAD9.4AC10%dnickull@xxxxxxxxx>
Perhaps once again I am too deep in the programming world.    (01)

The meaning of the "FirstNameOfContact" data element does not change.  The
values must be treated different from a programming perspective based on
their container-ship.  The point I am making is around the data structures
mentioned in the the previous post.  The data structure itself adds a
layer of complexity.  If I am mapping one struct to another, I cannot
simply map any instance of //@FirstNameOfContact ("//" meaning "any path")
to a similar structure in another data set.  I have to understand the data
contained in each of these is "First Name Of Contact" differs based on the
fact that one is a seller party and one is a buyer.  I therefor require
the complete hierarchic declaration before such data can be mapped.  We
did this in XML Global over a decade ago and found this to be problematic
as some XML structures were not developed using a good model.    (02)

Trying to map different, yet similar tag names is various data formats is
highly problematic.    (03)

Duane    (04)

On 11/1/11 2:33 PM, "Cory Casanave" <cory-c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:    (05)

>I'm not sure I get your point.  Assuming that the semantics of
>@FirstNameOfContact is well defined and consistent (which I think is your
>assumption - a big assumption), I don't see how the data contained in
>@FirstNameOfContact in these 2 context have different semantics.  In fact
>the SAME party with the SAME @FirstNameOfContact may play the role of
>BuyerParty in one XML document fragment and SellingParty in another.
>Clearly the same parties semantics are consistent with its self.
>I think the point being made was that analysis of
>different-but-assumed-similar tag names in various schema alone, without
>any abstraction, has less value than understanding common abstractions
>with semantic mappings.
>I feel like we must be talking past each other somehow??
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Duane Nickull
>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 4:23 PM
>To: edbark@xxxxxxxx; [ontolog-forum]; Paul Brown
>Cc: simf-rfp@xxxxxxx; jamsden@xxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Solving the information federation problem
>I couldn't agree more with this:
>>>Yet there is much implied in the data structures that they exchange as
>>>there is in the data structures that are used within each party's IT
>>>systems. I see some benefit in analyzing these data structures and
>>>extracting the ontological fragments they represent. There will be
>>>many holes, particularly in relationships between concepts, but it's a
>>>useful starting point. I see even greater advantage if we can then
>>>define ontological relationships and from them generate mappi
>>ngs between data structures, particularly between the publicly
>>exchanged data structures and each party's equivalent internal
>>There's real commercial benefit here.
>One issue that has perplexed a few beginners is the structure affecting
>semantics.  Presuming we could all agree on the meaning of a data element
>that is used for the "First name of a company contact", it would appear
>on the surface that we have solved a problem.  EDIFACT and OAGIS both took
>this approach and it has many benefits.   The issue comes when the data
>transferred is structured differently.  In Xpath terms, the data
>contained within the hierarchy:
>Is semantically different from
>The mapping between a hierarchy and a structured text file like EDI is
>difficult to document when you want to preserve the more subtle nuances
>of pragmatics.  
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