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Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology of Rough Sets

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Tara Athan <taraathan@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:06:17 -0800
Message-id: <4D366339.3050200@xxxxxxxxxx>
Let me preface this by saying that I am willing to be convinced I am wrong about most everything I think I understand about ontologies.  I would also like to say that I have put a lot of effort into trying to understand, not over two days, but over nearly two years now. Maybe I'm slow, but I managed to earn a PhD in something, just not set theory or mathematical logic.

The part of John's definition that I am questioning is the phrase "a class is a set that ...".  I've spent two years coming to the realization that a class is not a set, and that this idea is extremely important for ontologies, so if you want me to return to my starting point and throw out everything I thought I had understood, I'm going to raise a few objections and demand evidence.

Christopher Menzel wrote:
On Jan 18, 2011, at 4:36 PM, Tara Athan wrote:
In mathematical set theory, a class is a collection of sets but is not itself a set.

That's not quite what the article says.  In  Von Neumann-Bernays-Gödel set theory (VNBG) — the theory on which the entry is based — it is true that all classes are collections of sets, but the same is true of sets, as every set is a class.  Sets are simply those classes that are members of some other class.  Those classes that are not sets — and, hence, not members of any class — are known as proper classes.

Note also that whether there is a set/class distinction depends on the theory. In Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory, there is no such distinction; everything is a set.
Thanks for the clarification. The reference says a class is a generalized set, and I didn't realize that meant "sets plus other things", although now that you tell me it makes sense.

This is how I've always interpreted "class" as used in OWL, but I can't speak for other users.

This is not a matter that is open to interpretation (and your interpretation is incorrect).  In the semantics of OWL
Thanks for this link, I think ... that's some pretty heavy going. But what I read leads me to believe that it is open to interpretation.
DL, the extension of a OWL class consists of OWL individuals; in the semantics of OWL Full, there are OWL classes whose extensions include other OWL classes.
I looked at every occurrence of the word "class" at this link, and I don't see anywhere that it says that a class is a set, or not a set, or a collection, or a ....   The extension of a class consists of individuals, fine ... so the extension is a set, but that doesn't make the class a set.  They do say "the class extension" several times, suggesting there is only one extension, but only in cases where, if I understand it correctly, the extension is expected to be unique, such as The class extension of owl:Thing,or The class extension of owl:Class comprises the classes of the OWL universe. But when they talk about interpretations, they use "a"  : "a D-interpretation of V" .


So a class has an extension in a particular situation, and that extension is a set, but the extension (of the same class) can be a different set in a different situation. The class is the collection of all of its extensions, unified by its definition/description.

The semantics of OWL per se does not accommodate the idea of a class's extension changing over time, although one could presumably capture the idea formally by means of a series of interpretations (thought of as temporally ordered) that assign different extensions to the same class.  (This is possible because classes are not defined to be identical to their extensions in the semantics.)
I don't see anything in the OWL semantics that would prohibit multiple interpretations, indexed however one cares to do so, so it seems to me that it will just happen, or not, as a matter of implementation.  Let me explain ...

In a practical implementation, where a business maintains an ontology with their employee data in it, there are going to be modifications. They might make a new version of the entire ontology whenever an employee gets hired or fired, in which case you could say that you have an entirely new ontology, with new classes, each one having their own new, unique extension, and also new URI's that includes a different version number. But they doesn't seem very likely to happen, nor does it seem like a good idea.

What seems more likely is that there would be one or more TBox ontologies, with the class definitions, and one or  more ABox ontologies, with the  employee data. So someone getting hired/fired necessitates a change to an ABox, and in a good record-keeping system, a new version number and thus a new URI for the ABox. Even without versions numbers, the class has a different extension - a new set of URI's, but the class URI hasn't changed, so it's the same class.

I realize I am making the assumption that a URI can only (ever) refer to one thing (when properly implemented). If that assumption is flawed, then the foundations become very shaky indeed.

Note that it is a recipe for confusion to suppose that the properties of classes according to some mathematical theory of classes transfer unproblematically over to OWL (or any other representation language). If you want to know what a primitive term means according to a language, the only reliable guide is the model theory of the language.
But the guide does not specifically say what a class is, other than "part of the 'OWL universe'", has an extension and a member of the extension of owl:Class. Do any of these things tell us what a class is?
And they are careful to say things like
"class extension of all datatypes must be subsets of LVI"
so only extensions are referred to as subsets. It suggests to me that a class is something other than a set. And a logical place to look for what a class actually is, would be in a mathematical theory that introduces the term, and is relevant to the issue. ZF doesn't need the term class, so another set theory that does use the term "class" seems reasonable. Are there other theories that use the term class in a different way?
Of course, this assumes that you are dealing with a language that, like OWL or any Common Logic dialect, is sufficiently well-defined that it has a model theory.
And in model theory, don't we hear over and over again that only the extension is a set, there are multiple interpretations Or have I been reading the wrong references?
If it doesn't, or if it does but it is simply ignored, then the "semantics" for the language consists of little more than a welter of subjective preferences and vague intuitions.
This is what we must resort to when things are not precisely defined, but I hope we can communicate about them so that misunderstandings, or reasonable differences in interpretations, can get sorted out.
 The prospects for genuine, shareable knowledge representation in terms of such a language are dim at best.
I am starting to wonder ...

Chris Menzel


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Tara Athan
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