Re: [ontolog-forum] Webs and Fabrics

[Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 10/26/10 6:39 PM, Pavithra wrote:

Dr. Sowa & Kingsly


There are three parts to my response


1. Here is some notes on Linked Data..

Linked Data as "a term used to describe a recommended best practice for exposing, sharing, and connecting pieces of data, information, and knowledge on the Semantic Web using URIs and RDF."

No, you are describing TimBL's meme [1] that espoused:

1. Use URIs to identify things.
2. Use HTTP URIs so that these things can be referred to and looked up ("dereferenced") by people and user agents.
3. Provide useful information about the thing when its URI is dereferenced, using standard formats such as RDF/XML.
4. Include links to other, related URIs in the exposed data to improve discovery of other related information on the Web.

http://www.ted.com/talks/tim_berners_lee_on_the_next_web.html

( bla bla, compete with data base technology with simplicity..)

TimBL discussed how you publish (actually inject) Linked Data into the Web by constructing hypermedia resources in the manner prescribed above. This is a subtle, but extremely important point re., Linked Data comprehension, which starts by understanding its place in a broader technology innovation continuum that covers -- data access, data representation, data integration, and data management.

I prefer to define Linked Data as hypermedia based structured data [2]. Meaning: you represent a calendar using structured data representation e.g., using iCalendar syntax that produces a  ".ics" resource [3] which may or may not be HTTP addressable, referencable, or accessible. As already outlined re. iCalendar, you could do the same using one of the syntaxes associated with RDF [4][5][6] e.g., HTML+RDFa, RDF/XML, Turtle, N3, NTriples etc... You could also do the same thing using OData (an Atom+XML based markup from Microsoft), GData (Atom+XML based markup from Google), even a CSV file (where you simply stick to 3-tuples + use of "<" and ">" to indicate reference data i.e., NTriples-like) etc.

2.   What does this do more than a sql query does on a database?  Semantically nothing  other than the facts SQL query accesses a database objects and this accesses web objects or stuff..

Here what a SQL based RDBMS won't deliver, implicitly:

1. Reference values -- most relational DBMS engines don't support reference values (pointers)
2. References that resolve to structured data representation -- a Foreign Key doesn't implicitly resolve to a relational table (or view) that projects a union all its Referents (primary keys and dependent columns); of course you can code such functionality or implement an RDBMS hybrid e.g. Object-Relational engine that delivers this feature via ref and deref functions as SQL extensions.

Here is what Linked Data adds to the mix, implicitly:

1. Reference values -- via URIs (#2 of TimBL's meme with HTTP specificity, but this can apply to any URI scheme if you have a custom resolver)
2. References that resolve to structured data representation(s) -- #3 of TimBL's meme which is biased towards RDF as the W3C standard syntax for structured data representation and SPARQL as the mechanism for implicitly binding HTTP URI based Entity/Object Names to a Resource Addresses (URL) that resolves to Structured Data Representation(s).


The elegance of HTTP makes the representation of structured data negotiable [7].

SQL query is a data manipulation language  ---? DML...

3. My question is:  Is that all you want to do with Semantic Web?   If so, may be we are done ..   Time B L told us so.

Hmm..

We want to Refer to Entities/Objects across a global InterWeb space. We want these References to emulate pointers which have existed since the inception of computer programming.

When we de-reference a pointer, we want to have the option to choose (via negotiation) how the structured data is represented. Our base (not sole) data model is an Entity-Attribute-Value or Subject-Predicate-Object graph -- which ultimately boils down to FOL based conceptual schema.

Thus, the InterWeb (many resolvable URI schemes rather than HTTP solely) becomes a distributed database (that plugs in data spaces hosting heterogeneously shaped data). A database system that also ultimately exploits and demonstrates the fact that Relational Tables and Relational Graphs all sit atop the same conceptual schema (FOL based). A global space where I can browse data, realize my own limitations, and then (if need be) send agents out on my behalf to continue navigation and discovery, bearing in mind its understanding of my preferences and human limitations.

 Bur if you want to actually do something more like processing and computing data in a complex manner,  does this allow us to do that?   Nothing I have read so far tell me that it is capable of doing so.

SPARQL can do that, while SPASQL (SPARQL + SQL hybrid) can do more.

When the world-view is known a SQL RDBMS (at the current time) will trump a pure SPARQL + RDF DBMS. There are benchmarks [8] that have proven that repeatedly.

When deal with reality though, where world views manifest unpredictably and data shape is volatile SPARQL + RDF DBMS will run rings around a SQL DBMS.

Thus, the optimal solution (as far as I know) is a hybrid solution, especially one that combines RDBMS and Graph Model DBMS advances [9][10][11].

Let me tell a story.   Oracle supported Data Manipulation language, data definition langugae and Data control language.  But all the processing code had to be written by the front end application,  middle wear etc.   Later on they supported some event driven processing using the concept of triggers and stored procedures..  This is a procedural / event driven concept implemented using data base technology.  ( a little convoluted, but competed with procedural language processing..)

Yes, and the end product no matter how you cut it only works within Oracle.

There are procedural languages that actually allow complex computation.  Java is one of them..     Either one can explore the concept of procedural languages that are already in use for web development,  or use linked data concept and add on baggage later ( like oracle did..)..

Yes, and the end product no matter what is language locked.

I think it is simplicity with sagging, heavy baggage attached.. that will come later on..

No. Let's revisit TimBL's meme re. hypermedia based structured data, plus my subtle tweaks that put Linked Data back into a palatable innovation continuum that reflects pre Web reality and history:

1. Objects have Identity via URIs
2. URIs Resolve to Representations of their Referents
3. Data Object Representation is negotiable (so RDF and many other approaches, rather than RDF solely) -- HTTP facilitates this elegantly
4. Data Representation is separate from its underlying Conceptual Schema
5. Hypermedia Resource construction should leverage expanse of InterWeb via URIs when referring to related data.

1-5 will give us a dense web that that lends itself to precision find (rather than fuzzy search) and serendipitous discovery of relevant things based on individual context preferences. This is what Linked Data truly enables IMHO.

Links:

1. http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html - TimBL's Linked Data meme
2. http://www.openlinksw.com/dataspace/kidehen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx/weblog/kidehen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx%27s%20BLOG%20%5B127%5D/1639 -- What is Linked Data, really?
3. webcal://www.meetup.com/events/ical/3320828/aadb9d2e5dc0357ef8602e21e700335c/ -- URL (deliberately webcal: scheme) for an iCalendar Resource
4. http://kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/kidehen/calendar/Kingsley%27s%20Calendar -- URL to an HTML+RDFa representation of the same iCalendar Resource (with pointers to other representations via <link/> and @rel in <head/> and the "Link:" HTTP response header )
5. http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/html/http/kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/kidehen/calendar/Kingsley's%20Calendar -- URL to another HTML+RDFa representation that accentuates EAV/SPO triples
6. http://uriburner.com -- service that performs the structured linked data generation and "on the fly" lookups across Linked Open Data cloud against any resource URL
7. http://dbpedia.org/resource/Linked_Data -- look at the footer of this page you will notice links OData and JSON representations of the EAV/SPO based entity descriptor page
8. http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/BerlinSPARQLBenchmark/ -- RDF vs RDBMS vs RDF+RDBMS hybrid benchamarks
9. http://www.openlinksw.com/dataspace/oerling/weblog/Orri%20Erling%27s%20Blog/1626 -- new frontiers for SemData
10. http://virtuoso.openlinksw.com/dataspace/dav/wiki/Main/VirtDirectionsChallengesSemdata -- directions and challenges for semantically linked data
11. http://virtuoso.openlinksw.com/whitepapers/Directions_and_Challenges_for_Semantically_Linked_Data.pdf -- directions and challenges for semantically linked data (PDF) .



Kingsley

Regards,
Pavithra








--- On Tue, 10/26/10, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Webs and Fabrics
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 2:38 PM

On 10/26/10 12:38 PM, John F. Sowa wrote:
> There's an interesting new language and system designed for secure,
> distributed computing.  The language, called Jif (Java + Information
> Flow), extends Java with "policies", and the system is called Fabric
> because "Fabric is more useful and more tightly connected than webs."
>
> See below for references to Fabric, Jif, and related articles.
> But the main point I want to make in this note is the contrast
> between the methods for developing Fabric and the Semantic Web:
>
>    1. The SemWeb began with an inspiring, but rather vague speech
>       by Tim B-L about adding semantics to the URIs of the WWW.
>       At that level of detail, nobody could object.
>
>    2. The W3C, which met for the first time at the 1994 conference
>       where Tim gave that speech, took charge of the design and
>       development of the SemWeb.
>
>    3. Like any design by committee (cf. Fred Brooks' book), the
>       SemWeb was pulled in different directions by experts with
>       competing visions of the goals, technology, and methodology.
>
>    4. As a result, the only consensus on architectural document was
>       the familiar layer cake, which emphasized syntax over semantics.
>
>    5. The most widely used technology that came out of the SemWeb
>       was the lowest common denominator with the barest minimum of
>       semantics:  RDF.
>
>    6. The components above the RDF level have not been integrated
>       with each other or with the mainstream of IT software, and
>       very few IT developers have found any reason to use them.
>
> I don't know whether Jif and Fabric are going to be more successful,
> but their approach is the best way to develop a major new design:
> a small group doing focused research with prototype implementations
> to check how and whether the ideas work in practice.
>
> Doing advanced R&  D in a small group (or "skunk works") has always
> been far more successful than design by committee.  As a classic
> example that succeeded beyond the designers' wildest dreams, see
> the Oak project at Sun, which became Java:
>
>      https://duke.dev.java.net/green/
>
> As Yogi B. said, "Prediction is very hard, especially about the future."
> But I don't believe that any of the current components of the SemWeb
> are going to survive without a total overhaul or complete replacement.
> Instead, we can expect some small group working in skunk-works mode
> to produce a truly Semantic Fabric.

John,

I agree with the general "skunk works" theme 100%, but Java isn't a
great example today IMHO. Lots of bloat in Java land (codebase and
community process).

Linked Data (hypermedia based structured data) and the Linked Open Data
community are "skunk works" examples that emerged from the larger and
somewhat maligned Semantic Web project :-)

Kingsley
> John Sowa
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> Following is a brief article about Fabric from Dr. Dobb's Journal:
>
> http://www.drdobbs.com/article/printableArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=0SGXWQQMVBVOTQE1GHPSKHWATMY32JVN?articleId=227900404&dept_url=/java/
>
> Following is a 16-page paper:
>
>      http://www.cs.cornell.edu/andru/papers/fabric-sosp09.pdf
>
> And following is the web page for Jif, which also contains URLs
> for 40 related publications:
>
>      http://www.cs.cornell.edu/jif/
>
>
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--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen   
President&  CEO
OpenLink Software
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen






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Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	      
President & CEO 
OpenLink Software     
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen 

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