Re: [ontolog-forum] triadic sign realtions in practice

[FERENC KOVACS <f.kovacs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Sorry, but that just is not so.  The principle is a simple _expression_ of the fact that identity relation is reflexive.  There is only one variable in the principle which, in any instance of the principle, can take as its value only one object.

 

I am not happy with paradoxons. Like zero or nil is a sign of nothing, while i can see that 0 is there. natural numbers are enough for computing real life applications. What 0 is then a space in the line of numbers, which are places in space. It is a boundary in representing knowledg, signs, chunks of reality.

Without two items you cannot compare anything.

Perhaps so, but the logical principle of identity has nothing whatever to do with comparing one thing with another or with the epistemological difficulties involved in, e.g., discovering that what might be thought to be two things (e.g., the morning star and the evening star, Sam Clemens and Mark Twain, etc) are in fact one and the same.  

 

There is no separate logical or philosophical identity in this world. If identity is reality as it is suggested at subatomic level, the components of describing reality are surely similar and one cannot discard the observer and his knowledge, framework of interpretation. Sam Clemens and Mark Twain are the same by definition which may involve a list of matching properties. To me however they are objects with form and content where forms are names, two here, and content are extension and intension, another two lists. 

You call reflexivity a property, I see how reflexivity is not a property, but a verb to reflex, and two objects an object to reflect/reflex and the object produced by reflexing/reflecting/reacting. And that is exatly what you get if you use a natural language. In terms of operation, reflexing means a relation between two objects - one to be reflexed, and another one, the reflex, I am sorry to say.

 

Those are tremendously interesting questions on which the reflexivity of identity has no bearing whatsoever.

This is like duplicating an object. So therefore two seemingly identical objects are only identical with each other, if we disregard space an time parameters. This is called abstarction, disaambiguation, decontextualization, etc.

I'm not sure what you are saying here, but such metaphysical and epistemological ideas have nothing whatever to do with the logical laws of identity above, which in and of themselves are entirely independent of one's views of time, space, context, etc.

  

No wonder that you cannot ground your ontologies which are derived from our experience of reality and are an additional aspect of the same  through the symbols and signs we use - but in a different sense.

What I can or cannot do with my ontologies is neither here nor there.  You have confused a clear and simple principle of the logic of the identity relation — that it is reflexive — with something else entirely having to do with time, space, context, experience, reality, etc.  Your views on these subjects might be profoundly important, but they have nothing to do with the logical principle in question.  Therefore, I am simply correcting the record.

 

 

I did not mean your ontologies, just ontologies in general. I am happy to stand corrected.

regards, ferenc

-chris

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