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Re: [ontolog-forum] Reality and semantics. [Was: Thing and Class]

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:32:04 -0500
Message-id: <F4E6426C-4FBB-453B-9612-719E35F165BF@xxxxxxx>

On Sep 19, 2008, at 6:35 PM, Rich Cooper wrote:    (01)

> ============================================   
> ===========================
> PH>> By and large, its the people who build the best robots or the
>>> best NL-comprehension software who also tend to write the best
>>> academic papers.
> JFS>I agree.  But that is because the people who build the best robots
> and NLP systems are forced to understand the distinctions and
> *synthesize* them.  The ones who compartmentalize those topics
> (logic, ontology, and epistemology) in separate academic fields
> are rarely the ones who make significant breakthroughs.
> ============================================   
> ===========================
> This seems like a gross over generalization based on a circular  
> definition
> of what is "best".    (02)

Well,  'winning the open robot challenge competitions'  would do.    (03)

>  If by "best", you mean work that supports papers, then I
> find that an untenable definition.  People who build working robots  
> that are
> widely sold and used (iRobot, industrial robots, Aibo ...) are NOT  
> those who
> write papers about their creations.    (04)

Thats because all the work you cite here is either proprietary or  
secret for military reasons. I agree there is lot of excellent work  
being done which never gets written up, so perhaps I was a little too  
quick above. Maybe I should have said "who would write the best papers  
if they were allowed to", because some writings do get out and are  
uniformly good. Industrial robotics is no longer a research field, but  
while it was in transition a lot of papers did get written and were  
all better than most stuff coming out of the purely academic labs.    (05)

>  I think this set of robots is more
> qualified to be judged "best".  Academic paper writers usually build  
> toys
> which they use to explore some infinitesimal part of the technology,  
> and
> their toys almost NEVER get used in any real world situation.    (06)

That is an overstatement. Every piece and aspect of industrial  
robotics used in assembly and construction was pioneered in an  
academic AI lab.    (07)

> The Predator, MQ-8B Fire Scout, RQ-2 Pioneer, the various cruise  
> missiles
> and other successful military robots are not written about by  
> academics, but
> are widely used in today's military theaters.  These robots save  
> lives.    (08)

Well, no, they actually destroy lives, but I guess it doesn't matter  
since they aren't American.    (09)

Pat    (010)

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