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## Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology

 To: Christopher Menzel , "[ontolog-forum]" Avril Styrman Fri, 1 Feb 2008 23:32:10 +0200 <1201901530.47a38fdac73a1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 ```Chris and Pat,    (01) one thing you must agree is that arithmetics is about operations such as + and -. If one can reason at all, one has to understand how to use these operations. To understand these operations is the same as understanding the difference between one rock and two rocks. There is nothing more into it.    (02) Then people created all sorts of formal systems and wanted to prove everything. None of these makes arithmetic any more secure, better, or more usable in any way. Still they talk about an incompleteness and completeness of arithmetics.    (03) > (*) Not everything can be proved > > is, in the worst case, meaningless and, in the best case, ambiguous > (and false either way). Provability is always relative to a formal > system;    (04) I still understand Gödel's proof as a proof that you just cannot govern everything. It is clear even without any proof about it. One way to prove that all cannot be proved is the simple fact 1+1=2 cannot be proved. Or, if you prove it in some formal system, then the axioms of that formal system cannot be proven true.    (05) The theorem was a clear blow to some people who thought that everything can be governed, or put under some mathematical axioms. There's no denying that.    (06) > All the more ironic that you can parrot an accurate statement of > Gödel's Theorem, which you obviously googled, and then reiterate the > same muddled paraphrase of it.    (07) No, this time I copied it directly from Wikipedia :)    (08) A    (09) _________________________________________________________________ Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/ Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/ Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    (010) ```
 Current Thread Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, (continued) Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Patrick Cassidy Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Ed Barkmeyer Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, John F. Sowa Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Pat Hayes Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, John F. Sowa Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Patrick Cassidy Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, John F. Sowa Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Sharma, Ravi Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Patrick Cassidy Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Rob Freeman Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Avril Styrman <= Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Christopher Menzel Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Barker, Sean (UK) Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, paola . dimaio Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Avril Styrman Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Avril Styrman Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Christopher Menzel Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Pat Hayes Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, John F. Sowa Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Chris Menzel Re: [ontolog-forum] Axiomatic ontology, Pat Hayes