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Re: [ontolog-forum] PLEASE IGNORE ( FW: [soa-rm-ra] Policy_Contract_Busi

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Duane Nickull <dnickull@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 18:05:14 -0700
Message-id: <C25D31DA.E42E%dnickull@xxxxxxxxx>

Apologies - that was meant for Peter not the group.    (01)

D    (02)

On 5/1/07 6:01 PM, "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:    (03)

> Peter:
> 
> My schedule is as follows so I probably cannot make the call. I am in the
> bay area next Thursday for a while though so we might discuss face to face
> or at another time.
> 
> This Thursday  International Video Games Summit, Vancouver
> This Friday  NCTU  Burnaby (Car trip)
> May 7-9 (possibly 10th) - Java One, Moscone, SF
> May 13-17 - XTECH , Business Objects Tutorial, Paris France
> May 21-23  Developer summit (tentative)
> May 29-30  SD Times SOA enterprise talk, SF
> June 4-8 - Possible short lead time LC ES press tours added at will (various
> times in
> May, June)
> June 12, 14  Adobe Developer relations summit.
> June 18th, Seoul (Flex)
> June 19th, Hong Kong (LiveCycle)
> June 20th, Singapore (LiveCycle)
> June 22nd, Bangalore (Flex)
> June 26th, Sydney, AUS (Flex and LiveCycle)
> 
> Duane
> 
> 
> On 5/1/07 5:43 PM, "Peter Yim" <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks, Duane.
>> 
>> If there is interest to explore how we could pursue this further, we
>> could put this on the agenda of this Thursday's (May-3) Ontolog
>> operations planning and review conference call.
>> 
>> Please indicate interest either by responding to this thread, or to
>> Duane and myself offline, and let me know if you could make the May-3
>> call (~1-Hour starting 10:30am PDT / 1:30pm EDT / 17:30 UTC). See:
>> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2007_05_03
>> 
>> ... Can you make the call, Duane?
>> 
>> Regards.  =ppy
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/30/07, Duane Nickull <dnickull@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Sorry for cross posting, but the SOA community is conducting some work with
>>> ontological implications.  The OASIS group is working hard on a reference
>>> architecture to supplement the abstract reference model.  The RA work
>>> requires a deeper level of definition as it is more concrete.
>>> 
>>> Any help or advice on how these two groups might be able to help each other
>>> would be appreciated.  If there is interest, I can raise the issue of a
>>> formal liaison with the OASIS side and also get the administrivia out of the
>>> way so we can get some input.
>>> 
>>> There will be a draft of the RA document coming out soon too and if this
>>> community could help with the ontological aspects it would be appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Duane
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>> From: Danny Thornton <danny_thornton2@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:44:41 -0700 (PDT)
>>> To: <michael.poulin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <soa-rm-ra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Policy_Contract_Business diagram - some questions
>>> 
>>> Hi Micheal,
>>> 
>>> A proposition is an expression whose truth can be
>>> measured.  The following is the definition from the
>>> Business via Services section.
>>> 
>>> Proposition:  A proposition is an expression, normally
>>> in a language that has a well-defined written form,
>>> that expresses some property of the world from the
>>> perspective of a stakeholder. The truth of the
>>> proposition may be measured  using a decision
>>> procedure  by examining the world and checking that
>>> the proposition and the world are consistent with each
>>> other.
>>> 
>>> The beginning diagram in the policies and contracts
>>> model is a tie to the Business via Services section.
>>> The differentiating meaning between Policy and
>>> Contract is in the Business Via Services world.  The
>>> IT mechanisms measure the propositions of both
>>> policies and contracts.
>>> 
>>> Danny
>>> 
>>> --- michael.poulin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>> I guess you are having fun... at the F2F
>>>> 
>>>> I have (finally) looked at Policy_Contract_Business,
>>>> posted recently, and would like to comment it.
>>>> 
>>>> The Policy_Contract_Business diagram demonstrates a
>>>> few things I do not catch:
>>>> 1) what does mean a Policy contains many
>>>> Propositions? Is it because this is the only way (?)
>>>> to specify the state of the Policy? What does mean a
>>>> Proposition gets satisfied in the State?
>>>> 2) what particular architectural value a State adds
>>>> to the Proposition or to a Policy if there are no
>>>> constraints represented based on the State value
>>>> (Private/Public)? This seems as incomplete a little.
>>>> 3) the most problematic to me is the absence of
>>>> relationship between a Contract and a Policy. If
>>>> Proposition is interpreted as an "instance" of a
>>>> Contract (which in such case becomes just a Contract
>>>> Template), I think, I get it. That is, the Contract
>>>> and the Policies are now in one document. (However,
>>>> what the architectural difference a Public or
>>>> Private Contract makes? Isn't this a security
>>>> concern rather than architecture's one?). However,
>>>> if you have different meaning for the Proposition, I
>>>> certainly have a problem with it.
>>>> For these days, I am working on the XML Schema for
>>>> the Service Contract for my organisation and, after
>>>> a few energetic discussions, I have to say that we
>>>> came up with a Contract Template which allows a
>>>> reference to the Policy (in a Policy Repository) as
>>>> well as a direct Policy inclusion in the actual
>>>> Contract (aka Contract instance).
>>>> 4) once again, if the Proposition in the diagram is
>>>> a Contract instance, why we do not name it an
>>>> Agreement?
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> - Michael
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>> 
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