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Re: [ontolog-forum] ONTOLOG forum podcast

To: nicolas.rouquette@xxxxxxxxxxxx, "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Michael Maximilien <maxim@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:52:33 -0800
Message-id: <OFF1579B52.75DF8EFC-ON8825710A.006BAA44-8825710A.006D2ED0@xxxxxxxxxx>

> Max: is podcasting ontolog forum discussions sufficiently practical &
> reasonable
> in terms of resource demands to do on a systematic basis?


Yes.
 
> If yes, then this raises a number of interesting possibilities that
> could help us better "digest our own ontology food"

You mean 'dogfooding', I like that :-)
 
> For example, Nicola Guarino used the famous "red rose" example in his
> presentation of DOLCE
> (see http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2006_02_02)

I just added his talk to the podcast.  

(Just downloaded it so that I listen to it over the week-end :-)  I had to miss most of it...)
 
> Wouldn't it be great then to be able to annotate the podcast w/ a
> pointer to an example ontology built (for example)
> using Swoop from the public URL of DOLCE in a way that includes "back"
> annotation links to the podcast
> to establish a 3-way link among

Yes.  This is very interesting indeed.

In that same spirit but more from a engineering point of view, I would also point the group (I am sure you are aware of this) to the UIMA (http://uima-framework.sourceforge.net/) work and also the new podcast schema (I think 2.0) which allows you to add some forms of annotations and pointers during the podcast.  So for instance you can add different images so that as the podcast plays, the image (we have none for now) that is displayed in iTunes would change.  

What you are suggesting is a more generic version of that...  very cool.
 
> Annotations need to be "first-class" things that can themselves be
> annotated.
> In this case, the above annotation is an example of the distinction
> between descriptions (3) and situations (1) in DOLCE.

Yes.  

BTW, (you probably know this as well) but here is a pointer to a paper by Tom Gruber on folksonomy and ontology where he begins a model for representing tagging and essentially making them "first-class".

http://tomgruber.org/writing/ontology-of-folksonomy.htm

(I believe, in addition to Peter, two or three others may have suggested Tom's paper to me---including John Domingue when I met him in A'dam during ICSOC last November)
 
> The mindswappers have shown that doing annotations and referencing to
> subsets of ontologies is technically doable.
> One relevant question is whether the tools/mechanisms/infrastructure to
> do it could be deployed as an on-going service for this forum.

Interesting.  It's doable.  There are a variety of possibilities, including using/creating services that allow content to be tagged/annotated and then composing/mashing that with the Wiki.  It might take some engineering effort but definitely doable...

We should brainstorm and discuss some more.  Nicolas/Peter (others) any suggestions on how to proceed?  I am happy to continue via email and then do some live discussion.

Best,

E. M. (Max) Maximilien, Ph.D.
IBM Almaden Research Center
San Jose, CA USA
maxim@xxxxxxxxxx
Homepage: http://maximilien.org


ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 02/03/2006 11:15:29 AM:

> Thanks Peter for the heads-up/reminder.
>
> Max: is podcasting ontolog forum discussions sufficiently practical &
> reasonable
> in terms of resource demands to do on a systematic basis?
>
> If yes, then this raises a number of interesting possibilities that
> could help us better "digest our own ontology food"
> with related technology support (e.g., Swoop's annotation support &
> Annotea server, publicly available ontolgies
> w/ sufficiently axiomatized content adequate for reasoning analysis --
> e.g., SUMO, DOLCE, ...)
>
> For example, Nicola Guarino used the famous "red rose" example in his
> presentation of DOLCE
> (see http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2006_02_02)
>
> As Nicola emphasized at the end of his talk, small examples are really
> important to convey
> and discuss important ideas like that of being able to precisely capture
> the subtle differences
> on the various meanings of "red" in "red rose".
>
> Wouldn't it be great then to be able to annotate the podcast w/ a
> pointer to an example ontology built (for example)
> using Swoop from the public URL of DOLCE in a way that includes "back"
> annotation links to the podcast
> to establish a 3-way link among
>
> (1) a subset of the example ontology that illustrates one of the
> meanings of "red"
> (2) a segment of the presentation where Nicola explains that particular
> meaning
> (3) the description of that meaning in DOLCE
>
> Annotations need to be "first-class" things that can themselves be
> annotated.
> In this case, the above annotation is an example of the distinction
> between descriptions (3) and situations (1) in DOLCE.
>
> The mindswappers have shown that doing annotations and referencing to
> subsets of ontologies is technically doable.
> One relevant question is whether the tools/mechanisms/infrastructure to
> do it could be deployed as an on-going service for this forum.
>
> -- Nicolas.
>
> Peter P. Yim wrote:
>
> > Thank you very much, Max. This is great!
> >
> > See announcement at the Ontolog:WikiHomePage -
> > http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidJMZ
> > (and the ensuing details under the "Events" section.)
> >
> > Also, please refer to our discussion at last week's call relating to
> > this matter -
> > http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2006_01_26#nidJKM
> >
> > In particular, there is continuing work to maintain/enhance the
> > podcast, and we need some volunteers (contact Max for details).
> >
> > More interestingly, an initiative that Nicolas Rouquette alluded to
> > before is now re-surfacing as a potential project for "tagging
> > multimedia and other Ontolog content for podcast & semantic search."
> > ... let's discuss this. ... Better still, maybe we can even devote a
> > technical discussion session for it (Nicolas and Max, you want to
> > co-organize this?)
> >
> > Thanks & regards.  =ppy
> > --
> >
> >
> > Michael Maximilien wrote Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:58:23 -0800:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> 1) Podcast available on ONTOLOG forum Wiki.
> >> http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/resource/podcast/ontolog-podcast.xml
> >>
> >> 2) Modified Wiki homepage to announce --- feel free to edit, add
> >> images, or change text
> >>
> >> 3) Added all 2005 episodes -- I will gradually add more as time permits
> >>
> >> 4) Registered podcast with iTunes and Yahoo podcast -- soon you will
> >> be able to search and subscribe directly from these sites
> >>
> >> 5) Tried RSS feed on iTunes and Safari --- works fine
> >>
> >> 6) Removed RSS feed from my site
> >>
> >> Thanks to Peter Yim for various assistance and making this happen.  
> >> Send me and Peter any feedback or better yet respond to this email.
> >>
> >> If you have problem using then let me know.  Take care,
> >>
> >> E. M. (Max) Maximilien, Ph.D.
> >> IBM Almaden Research Center
> >> San Jose, CA USA
> >> maxim@xxxxxxxxxx
> >> Homepage: http://maximilien.org
> >
> >
> >
> >> ----- Forwarded by Michael Maximilien/Almaden/IBM on 01/25/2006 12:53
> >> PM -----
> >> *Michael Maximilien/Almaden/IBM*
> >>
> >> 01/19/2006 12:11 PM
> >>
> >>    
> >> To
> >>     "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> cc
> >>    
> >> Subject
> >>     ONTOLOG forum podcast (beta)
> >>
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Due to various constraints (overlapping meetings and customer visits)
> >> I have been missing the recent forum meetings so on the plane from
> >> Boulder I thought about creating a podcast (see
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podcast ) for  the forum.
> >>
> >> So I am announcing the availability of the podcast as *_beta_* to get
> >> your feedback and also because I have not added all of the episodes
> >> posted on the Wiki yet.
> >> I am assuming also that WE as a community are OK with adding a
> >> podcast of the ONTOLOG forum in addition to the Wiki.  If you
> >> disagree then please let me know ASAP.
> >>
> >> See => http://maximilien.org/podcasts/ontolog-forum/ontolog-podcast.xml
> >>
> >> Open the URL in iTunes from Podcasts section (or other podcast media
> >> player) et voilas!
> >>
> >> So now I can manage my missed episodes, view summary and other info,
> >> and importantly download to my iPod for listening on the plane rides :-)
> >>
> >> -----------------------
> >> Few things I am considering and TODOs (me and you):
> >>
> >> 1) I posted the podcast XML on my Web site (ONLY temporarily).  I
> >> need access to the ONTOLOG server to post it there instead.  So Peter
> >> or anyone who has access please call me or send to me privately.  I
> >> am OK also to send you the XML and you post it.
> >>
> >> 2) I took great time to cut and paste and edit the contents, details,
> >> and semantics for the current episodes from the Wiki but I may have
> >> some mistakes/typos.  Please let me know.
> >>
> >> 3) Once we post to the ONTOLOG server then I will publish (unless the
> >> community disagrees) the podcast in iTunes and Yahoo! Podcasts for
> >> easy search and subscription.
> >>
> >> 4) Test in various players and podcast managers.  I am using iTunes
> >> on a Mac.
> >>
> >> 5) If there is an image for the ONTOLOG forum community I can add
> >> that so it displays in the podcast managers (i.e., iTunes)
> >>
> >> 6) Anything else...
> >>
> >> -----------------------
> >>
> >> Any feedback is appreciated.  If you want to help add the remaining
> >> episodes or suggestions then reply to this or contact me.
> >> Take care,
> >>
> >> E. M. (Max) Maximilien, Ph.D.
> >> IBM Almaden Research Center
> >> San Jose, CA USA
> >> maxim@xxxxxxxxxx
> >> Homepage: http://maximilien.org
> >
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