Hi Toby,
RE: meaning I can ask domains to translate into UnitsML, and others to read from UnitsML into their own domains.
with
The process of making a conversion cannot produce a more precise result than the original quoted figure. Appropriate rounding of results is normally performed after conversion.
In a building, say the thickness of all the facades and interior partitions was rounded up merely a fraction - the footprint might exceed the property line or limit of construction. Would you say the translation from UnitML to a domain would have, something like a checkpoint - for overalls?
Deborah On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT) <Toby.Considine@xxxxxxx> wrote:
1)
Today, everyone rolls their own physical measurements. What other
choice do they have?
2)
Even when there is an existing body of semantic stuff, even if
well defined, far too many standards participants have trouble incorporating
proper referential namespaces into standards. This means that even if I am
using the WonderML semantics, I name the variables MyML:doodah instead of
WonderML:doodah, limiting the ability to get re-use. <sigh />
3)
In the short term, I see standards such as UnitsML, providing a
translation shim, meaning I can ask domains to translate into UnitsML, and
others to read from UnitsML into their own domains.
4)
Longer term, I would like to see incorporation
I must confess, though, I do not believe in the possibility of
UFOs… (Universal Fundamental Ontologies…)
tc
"A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in
the wrong, which is but saying ... that he is wiser today than yesterday."
-- Jonathan Swift
RHi Toby
RE: the 3 components:
-
An XML schema (UnitsML),
-
A database containing detailed information on SI (International System of
Units) and non-SI scientific units of measure,
-
and tools to facilitate the incorporation of UnitsML into other markup
languages.
Which non-SI
scientific units of measure are being considered?
In
regards to buildings, if according to Wikipedia (90) SI
are a modern form of the metric system devised
around the convenience of the number ten - would you say one reason the US [see map ]
has not ...officially adopted the International System of Units as our
primary or sole system of measurement... is because architects still
draw in feet and inches?
Many
manufacturers in WDG specifications have moved on to metric, green building
VOCs are typically measured in grams per liter, off-the-shelf specifications
are offered with a toggle between metric and customary units. Some changes are
underway.
How
do you foresee the work of the UnitsML technical committee helping to smooth
this transition into the reality of building record keeping and exchange? Will
conversion procedures between units of measures be part of the schema?
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Considine, Toby (Campus
Services IT) <Toby.Considine@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
All this makes more sense if my
second paragraph reads
"UnitsML had fallen into a
coma"
It is now revived and meeting
regularly.
"A man should never be
ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he
is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift
Well thats interesting. Outside of the coma, has there been much negative
feedback about why UnitsML would NOT work? Is the OASIS TC committee making
progress?
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT) <Toby.Considine@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
As I understand it, UnitsML is
being developed so that all scientific journals can report their data in
a common format. Then the Open Science movement kicked in, and some grants
began toying with the idea that whatever the conclusion, all data generated on
that grant was the property of the Grantor…but there had to be an xml
format that for everything from temperature to pH to Roentgens to
KiloCals/Fortnight…
UnitsML has fallen into a coma,
after last being seen in the wild in a PowerPoint in Taos in 2002. When I was
kicking off oBIX, I wished I had something like UnitsML and I began making
regular inquiries…many within NIST, and suddenly a TC popped up on the
subject, within OASIS, with 2 NIST staffers as chairs…
The XML produced for Current
Weather Reports by NOAH has improved a lot in the last few years, but it is now
a standard feed for the weather report. The raw observations are still, well,
non-standard and usually ugly. With UnitsML down, then updating SensorML
constructing a nice weather station spec that supports diverse stations seems
reasonable.
Then the building systems, many
of which have external sensors, could report this information up into, say,
emergency response for storms in some interesting ways, eliminating details to
provide only weather in a manner somewhat similar to HAVE…. A weather
station in the courtyard could be the environmental sensor for a number of
building systems. …
At least, that's how I see
it…
tc
"A man should never be
ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he
is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift
There is ISO/PAS 16739:2005 which I have been
trying to get ahold of. OGC and OASIS probably have a reciprocal liaison
arrangement already. Wouldn't the "one true standard for all measurements of the physical
world" obviously have very strict requirements for
keeping track of time and location? Have you read much from the NIST Time and
Frequency division? Great stuff.
Deborah
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT) <Toby.Considine@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
I think those would be fine
relationships to propose and would really bring together some nice work.
Some questions:
-
Are the IFCs, in fact, ISO blessed? If so this would mean that service
semantics would be extending existing ISO work, which would make it much
cleaner and more powerful.
-
I had though the OGC already had some sort of relationship with OASIS. Hmmmm
-
While we are talking about cross-pollination, NIST is running its UnitsML work
through OASIS. If they ever complete their work, I can foresee all sorts of standards,
including those in buildingSmart, in the OGC, and in the Emergency Response
areas aligning themselves with the one true standard for all measurements of
the physical world. In particular, I would like WeatherML to be re-written from
scratch to have some semantic value, and then all external environmental
sensors to be re-cast within that standard, and then…
We should look into MOUs
between these organizations. Such MOUs should have specific projects in mind,
lest that be mere statements of good feelings.
tc
"A man should never be ashamed
to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he is wiser
today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift
Thanks Toby - in theory, wouldn't OASIS be an
ideal Liaison Organization with NBIMS and perhaps to some extent the Open
Geospatial Consortium? Aren't the objectives heading in the same direction even
if the detailed work is accomplished on different levels? Take OBIX for
example, would members of your technical committee eventually convene with
members of appropriate NBIMS committee, perhaps in the form of a workgroup,
interoperability activities or subject matter experts? It seems the terms
workgroup, liaison, and subject matter experts are consistently used -
technical committee seems to vary. Deborah
On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT) <Toby.Considine@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
>> Someday maybe NBIMS standards will disappear and not be expressed
"... explicitly
>> since they are fundamental to so many other applications and
specifications that we
>> take them for granted."
>>
>> RE: develop, publish, advertise and maintain their own
facilities-related Resource Lists
>> to use this methodology and technique - is like a format or
template for those tasks all
>> the way through the process?
I know that from my
perspective, that is the future of oBIX. Without the higher abstractions, even
most simple conversations are nonsensical
Security: "Secure this
sensor" "Secure Contact Closure 7" What would that mean? Compare
to "Secure all sensors in the Surgery Areas" "Restrict access to
Operating Schedule for Clinical Environmental Controls to…"
Operations: See above
IN 2005, when imagining the
future abstractions that oBIX would need, I reported that the next steps were
Functional Domain Services used
by Owners, Operators, and Tenants
n WS-Buildings HVAC
(based on GPC 20)
n WS-Buildings Power
n WS-Buildings Access
Control
n WS-Buildings
Intrusion Detection
n WS-Buildings CCTV
n WS-Buildings
Occupancy
And the cross-cutting
Analytics and Cross-Domain
Abstractions
n WS-Buildings
Performance (M&V, commissioning)
n WS-Buildings
Analytics
n WS-Buildings Tenant
Services
Not sure this aligns with BSP
today, but it is similar to what you are describing…
tc
"A man should never be
ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he
is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift
Hi All,
Thanks for your responses, it will take some time to wade through them but
no time like the present. Especially I need to look hard at this Umbel
configuration and learn more about it.
In regards to the health workshop, next years CSI Mid-Atlantic Regional
Conference will be in Charlottesville VA and one of the construction tours is a
new hospital cancer center. The spaces are specially designed to meet health
and spiritual requirements that are atypical of hospital design. Of course
hospitals have TONS of equipment, like sensors, not only for indoor air quality
but literally people's health. Maybe that architect could participate in the
workshop.
Someday maybe NBIMS standards will disappear and not be expressed
"... explicitly since they are fundamental to so many other
applications and specifications that we take them for granted."
RE: develop, publish, advertise and maintain their own
facilities-related Resource Lists to use this methodology and technique - is
like a format or template for those tasks all the way through the process?
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Rex Brooks <rexb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi Deborah,
I am copying David Coggeshall, of Golden Gate Safety Network, who gave the
presentation on the Common Operating Picture (COP). I am also copying the BSP
list so that that group is also aware of this.
I think Michelle is probably better suited to address many of your questions
related to BIM and NBIMS. However, I can say that OASIS does not, as far as I
know, have a specific formal, legal, liaison relationship with ISO, but it has
collaborated with ITU and ISO in the past. ITU adopted an ASN.1 representation
of the Common Alerting Protocol (CAP)1.1 that I worked on more than a year ago,
and I believe it was in 2004 that ISO adopted 5 ebXML specifications developed
by OASIS with UNCEFACT:
* ISO 15000-1: ebXML Collaborative Partner Profile Agreement
* ISO 15000-2: ebXML Messaging Service Specification
* ISO 15000-3: ebXML Registry Information Model
* ISO 15000-4: ebXML Registry Services Specification
* ISO 15000-5: ebXML Core Components Technical Specification,
Version 2.01.
Our SOA Registry Repository usesthe Registry Information Model and Registry
Services Specifications and some of the others though not explicitly since they
are fundamental to so many other applications and specifications that we take
them for granted.
I am probably going to suggest several people and groups to help organize or
take the lead in helping Susan with developing an Emergency Healthcare Workshop
and perhaps an Emergency Standards Workshop. The ValueListURN-Value pair
concept I mentioned a couple of times yesterday is part of the EDXL Family and
an educational-socialization effort is needed to stimulate local jurisidictions
and EOCs to develop, publish, advertise and maintain their own
facilities-related Resource Lists to use this methodology and technique, which
is rather well suited for BIM, NBIMS and Sensor-OGC interests.
I learned enough with this effort, that even with four months advance work
(despite the interruption of a hernia and hernia repair surgery), putting this
kind of effort together needs a bit more of a team. Of course the coincidence
of having the NIST workshop next week along with the OPEN SIG presentation is not
likely to be duplicated. However, the annual NIST Interoperability Week in
March-April is another such potential coincidence-target, as are the regular
Semantic Interoperability and SOA for E-Government Conferences.
The time to start work on these efforts is soon, before the Thanksgiving-Xmas
period. Coordinating this effort with the Open Ontology Repository work is
something both Michelle and I have an interest in continuing.
Cheers,
Rex
At 2:30 PM -0400 10/8/08, Deborah MacPherson wrote:
Dear Rex, Michelle, and Peter,
I am honored to have participated in yesterday's workshop. I learned a lot,
some activities are further along than I thought and some interface with the
ways buildings are designed and actually work seem to be completely missing.
For example I'm surprised the only comment on buildings by DHS was that
"they have inside spaces". On the up side, the strong tie that
already exists between NBIMS and OGC is sure to be a benefit in the long run.
I had a talk with Greg Ceton Technical Program Manager at CSI this morning.
Basically, ISO standards (and European Standards for that matter) and the NBIMS
Standard are not alike, mainly because their organizations have more staff, so
there are more forms and procedures, they look for trends etc. NBIMS is much
simpler than this. I'm trying to understand relationships between standards
organizations, can someone please explain the relationship between ISO and
OASIS if any direct relationship exists?
Its hard to say what I liked the best in the slide shows.
-Certainly the concept of Common Operating Picture is very appealing. I'd
like to see the same for museums exchanging artworks in different exhibits over
time.
- The Scalable Architecture presentation was great especially SuperCuper
Prototype where the XML is far in the background without the user having to
fill out information that is probably already known simply by working with this
type of data or question. Also interested in the comment from SourceForge that
"all messages contain some elements of these major categories."
- Its very exciting to see demonstrations in Google Earth. I truly
believe OCCS Table 11 could be used to color GIS symbology a standard way by
building type to help clarify the common operating picture even more. I proposed
10 standardized colors for BSP, maybe we can talk about these again. I sent a
message with this same suggestion about Table 11 and colors to Charles McLean
earlier today (in response to what seemed to be a sincere request for
suggestions) along with another suggestion RE: the pros and cons of Fire
Control Rooms.
- I also particularly like the People, Places, Things, Events and think these
could be tied to building data fairly easily through special relationships
between OmniClass tables.
- Once the information is exposed real time on Google Earth, is there a reason
it would not be available to people in that area whether on their computers or
on their cell phones so they know where to go? Is it currently possible to
limit what is shown to a geographic area, in other words only people within a
certain distance could receive the common picture? That way some terrorist or
bank robber is not sitting miles away watching their disruption from a safe
distance?
-I liked the symbols Michelle was proposing and the rapid assessment and reuse
of a building (EX: a warehouse is converted into a temporary hospital then all
the ambulances get re-routed there.) OPS is perfect for this.
-Also, the ability to terminate a request once it is met makes a lot of sense (EX:
stop sending cots to this location, send them to this other place instead).
I'll look at the NIMS Resource Typing and Daisy.org to see if there is anything
useful for architects or NBIMS there. If you have recommendations on Swarms or
Smart Swarm Agents I'm curious to know more about that some day.
I started a page for collaborative editing or wishlists if a discussion could
get going
<http://colab.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NBIMSinContext>http://colab.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NBIMSinContext.
Finally, I've been looking at the Umbel Ontology and based upon Peters comment
to "ground any domain ontology into a foundation/upper" I'll see if I
can get my classifications and standards to fit in that. That would be a great
leap forward because of the convenient shape Umbel has. I'll also go back to
hear their talk from the other week. If you have any advise on how to start
that process please let me know.
Thanks again,
Deborah
--
*************************************************
Deborah L. MacPherson CSI CCS, AIA
Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC
**************************************************
--
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-898-0670
--
*************************************************
Deborah L. MacPherson CSI CCS, AIA
Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC
**************************************************
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