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Re: [bsp-forum] Great Workshop, some questions and comments

To: "Building Service Performance (BSP) Forum" <bsp-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT)" <Toby.Considine@xxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 10:05:51 -0400
Message-id: <49388A5276025649AC24AF97ADB9DA6219F0228C77@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

1)      It is my understanding that UnitsML includes precision as one of the attributes of a fully qualified measurement

2)      UnitsML encourages statement of results in native units, with knowable translations by the user

 

I do not see UnitsML replacing all of the native dimensioning of, say the building geometry. I see UnitsML for delivering a fully qualified data point for a temperature sensor, or for wind speed for wind-chill computations, and perhaps for ventilation numbers…

 

tc


"A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift


Toby Considine

Chair, OASIS oBIX TC
Facilities Technology Office
University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill, NC

  

Email: Toby.Considine@ unc.edu
Phone: (919)962-9073

http://www.oasis-open.org

blog: www.NewDaedalus.com

 

 

From: bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Deborah MacPherson
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 10:00 AM
To: Building Service Performance (BSP) Forum
Subject: Re: [bsp-forum] Great Workshop, some questions and comments

 

Hi Toby, 

 

RE: meaning I can ask domains to translate into UnitsML, and others to read from UnitsML into their own domains.

 

with 

 

Rounding of results 

The process of making a conversion cannot produce a more precise result than the original quoted figure. Appropriate rounding of results is normally performed after conversion. 

 

In a building, say the thickness of all the facades and interior partitions was rounded up merely a fraction - the footprint might exceed the property line or limit of construction.  Would you say the translation from UnitML to a domain would have, something like a checkpoint - for overalls?

Deborah

 

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT) <Toby.Considine@xxxxxxx> wrote:

1)      Today, everyone rolls their own physical measurements. What other choice do they have?

2)      Even when there is an existing body of semantic stuff, even if well defined, far too many standards participants have trouble incorporating proper referential namespaces into standards. This means that even if I am using the WonderML semantics, I name the variables MyML:doodah instead of WonderML:doodah, limiting the ability to get re-use. <sigh />

3)      In the short term, I see standards such as UnitsML, providing a translation shim, meaning I can ask domains to translate into UnitsML, and others to read from UnitsML into their own domains.

4)      Longer term, I would like to see incorporation

 

I must confess, though, I do not believe in the possibility of UFOs… (Universal Fundamental Ontologies…)

 

tc

 


"A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift


Toby Considine

Chair, OASIS oBIX TC
Facilities Technology Office
University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill, NC

  

Email: Toby.Considine@ unc.edu
Phone: (919)962-9073

http://www.oasis-open.org

blog: www.NewDaedalus.com

 

 

From: bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Deborah MacPherson
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:58 AM


To: Building Service Performance (BSP) Forum
Subject: Re: [bsp-forum] Great Workshop, some questions and comments

 

RHi Toby 

 

RE: the 3 components:

 

- An XML schema (UnitsML),

 

- A database containing detailed information on SI (International System of Units) and non-SI scientific units of measure, 

 

- and tools to facilitate the incorporation of UnitsML into other markup languages.

 

Which non-SI scientific units of measure are being considered?

 

In regards to buildings, if according to Wikipedia (90) SI are a modern form of the metric system devised around the convenience of the number ten - would you say one reason the US [see map ] has not ...officially adopted the International System of Units as our primary or sole system of measurement... is because architects still draw in feet and inches? 

 

Many manufacturers in WDG specifications have moved on to metric, green building VOCs are typically measured in grams per liter, off-the-shelf specifications are offered with a toggle between metric and customary units. Some changes are underway. 

 

How do you foresee the work of the UnitsML technical committee helping to smooth this transition into the reality of building record keeping and exchange? Will conversion  procedures between units of measures be part of the schema?

 

Deborah

 

On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT) <Toby.Considine@xxxxxxx> wrote:

All this makes more sense if my second paragraph reads

 

"UnitsML had fallen into a coma"

 

It is now revived and meeting regularly.

 


"A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift


Toby Considine

Chair, OASIS oBIX TC
Facilities Technology Office
University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill, NC

  

Email: Toby.Considine@ unc.edu
Phone: (919)962-9073

http://www.oasis-open.org

blog: www.NewDaedalus.com

 

 

From: bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Deborah MacPherson
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:13 AM


To: Building Service Performance (BSP) Forum

Subject: Re: [bsp-forum] Great Workshop, some questions and comments

 

Well thats interesting. Outside of the coma, has there been much negative feedback about why UnitsML would NOT work? Is the OASIS TC committee making progress?

 

 

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT) <Toby.Considine@xxxxxxx> wrote:

As I understand it, UnitsML is being developed so that all scientific journals can  report their data in a common format. Then the Open Science movement kicked in, and some grants began toying with the idea that whatever the conclusion, all data generated on that grant was the property of the Grantor…but there had to be an xml format that for everything from temperature to pH to Roentgens to KiloCals/Fortnight…

 

UnitsML has fallen into a coma, after last being seen in the wild in a PowerPoint in Taos in 2002. When I was kicking off oBIX, I wished I had something like UnitsML and I began making regular inquiries…many within NIST, and suddenly a TC popped up on the subject, within OASIS, with 2 NIST staffers as chairs…

 

The XML produced for Current Weather Reports by NOAH has improved a lot in the last few years, but it is now a standard feed for the weather report. The raw observations are still, well, non-standard and usually ugly. With UnitsML down, then updating SensorML constructing a nice weather station spec that supports diverse stations seems reasonable.

 

Then the building systems, many of which have external sensors, could report this information up into, say, emergency response for storms in some interesting ways, eliminating details to provide only weather in a manner somewhat similar to HAVE…. A weather station in the courtyard could be the environmental sensor for a number of building systems. …

 

At least, that's how I see it…

 

tc


"A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift


Toby Considine

Chair, OASIS oBIX TC
Facilities Technology Office
University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill, NC

  

Email: Toby.Considine@ unc.edu
Phone: (919)962-9073

http://www.oasis-open.org

blog: www.NewDaedalus.com

 

 

From: bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Deborah MacPherson
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 3:50 PM


To: Building Service Performance (BSP) Forum

Subject: Re: [bsp-forum] Great Workshop, some questions and comments

 

There is ISO/PAS 16739:2005  which I have been trying to get ahold of. OGC and OASIS probably have a reciprocal liaison arrangement already. Wouldn't the "one true standard for all measurements of the physical world"  obviously have very strict requirements for keeping track of time and location? Have you read much from the NIST Time and Frequency division? Great stuff. 

 

Deborah

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT) <Toby.Considine@xxxxxxx> wrote:

I think those would be fine relationships to propose and would really bring together some nice work.

 

Some questions:

-          Are the IFCs, in fact, ISO blessed? If so this would mean that service semantics would be extending existing ISO work, which would make it much cleaner and more powerful.

-          I had though the OGC already had some sort of relationship with OASIS. Hmmmm

-          While we are talking about cross-pollination, NIST is running its UnitsML work through OASIS. If they ever complete their work, I can foresee all sorts of standards, including those in buildingSmart, in the OGC, and in the Emergency Response areas aligning themselves with the one true standard for all measurements of the physical world. In particular, I would like WeatherML to be re-written from scratch to have some semantic value, and then all external environmental sensors to be re-cast within that standard, and then…

 

We should look into MOUs between these organizations. Such MOUs should have specific projects in mind, lest that be mere statements of good feelings.

 

tc


"A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift


Toby Considine

Chair, OASIS oBIX TC
Facilities Technology Office
University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill, NC

  

Email: Toby.Considine@ unc.edu
Phone: (919)962-9073

http://www.oasis-open.org

blog: www.NewDaedalus.com

 

 

From: bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Deborah MacPherson


Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:53 AM
To: Building Service Performance (BSP) Forum

Cc: ibcomm@xxxxxxx


Subject: Re: [bsp-forum] Great Workshop, some questions and comments

 

Thanks Toby - in theory, wouldn't OASIS be an ideal Liaison Organization with NBIMS and perhaps to some extent the Open Geospatial Consortium? Aren't the objectives heading in the same direction even if the detailed work is accomplished on different levels? Take OBIX for example, would members of your technical committee eventually convene with members of appropriate NBIMS committee, perhaps in the form of a workgroup, interoperability activities or subject matter experts? It seems the terms workgroup, liaison, and subject matter experts are consistently used - technical committee seems to vary. Deborah

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT) <Toby.Considine@xxxxxxx> wrote:

>> Someday maybe NBIMS standards will disappear and not be expressed "... explicitly

>> since they are fundamental to so many other applications and specifications that we

>>  take them for granted."

>>

>> RE: develop, publish, advertise and maintain their own facilities-related Resource Lists  

>> to use this methodology and technique - is like a format or template for those tasks all  

>> the way through the process?

 

I know that from my perspective, that is the future of oBIX. Without the higher abstractions, even most simple conversations are nonsensical

 

Security: "Secure this sensor" "Secure Contact Closure 7" What would that mean? Compare to "Secure all sensors in the Surgery Areas" "Restrict access to Operating Schedule for Clinical Environmental Controls to…"

 

Operations: See above

 

IN 2005, when imagining the future abstractions that oBIX would need, I reported that the next steps were

 

Functional Domain Services used by Owners, Operators, and Tenants

n        WS-Buildings HVAC (based on GPC 20)

n        WS-Buildings Power

n        WS-Buildings Access Control

n        WS-Buildings Intrusion Detection

n        WS-Buildings CCTV

n        WS-Buildings Occupancy

 

And the cross-cutting

 

Analytics and Cross-Domain Abstractions

n        WS-Buildings Performance (M&V, commissioning)

n        WS-Buildings Analytics

n        WS-Buildings Tenant Services

 

Not sure this aligns with BSP today, but it is similar to what you are describing…

 

tc


"A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift


Toby Considine

Chair, OASIS oBIX TC
Facilities Technology Office
University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill, NC

  

Email: Toby.Considine@ unc.edu
Phone: (919)962-9073

http://www.oasis-open.org

blog: www.NewDaedalus.com

 

 

From: bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Deborah MacPherson
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:13 AM
To: Rex Brooks
Cc: BSP Forum; ibcomm@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [bsp-forum] Great Workshop, some questions and comments

 

Hi All, 

 

Thanks for your responses, it will take some time to wade through them but no time like the present. Especially I need to look hard at this Umbel configuration and learn more about it. 

 

In regards to the health workshop, next years CSI Mid-Atlantic Regional Conference will be in Charlottesville VA and one of the construction tours is a new hospital cancer center. The spaces are specially designed to meet health and spiritual requirements that are atypical of hospital design. Of course hospitals have TONS of equipment, like sensors, not only for indoor air quality but literally people's health. Maybe that architect could participate in the workshop. 


Someday maybe NBIMS standards will disappear and not be expressed "... explicitly since they are fundamental to so many other applications and specifications that we take them for granted."

 

RE: develop, publish, advertise and maintain their own facilities-related Resource Lists to use this methodology and technique - is like a format or template for those tasks all the way through the process?

 

Deborah

 

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Rex Brooks <rexb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Deborah,

I am copying David Coggeshall, of Golden Gate Safety Network, who gave the presentation on the Common Operating Picture (COP). I am also copying the BSP list so that that group is also aware of this.

I think Michelle is probably better suited to address many of your questions related to BIM and NBIMS. However, I can say that OASIS does not, as far as I know, have a specific formal, legal, liaison relationship with ISO, but it has collaborated with ITU and ISO in the past. ITU adopted an ASN.1 representation of the Common Alerting Protocol (CAP)1.1 that I worked on more than a year ago, and I believe it was in 2004 that ISO adopted 5 ebXML specifications developed by OASIS with UNCEFACT:
   * ISO 15000-1: ebXML Collaborative Partner Profile Agreement
   * ISO 15000-2: ebXML Messaging Service Specification
   * ISO 15000-3: ebXML Registry Information Model
   * ISO 15000-4: ebXML Registry Services Specification
   * ISO 15000-5: ebXML Core Components Technical Specification, Version 2.01.

Our SOA Registry Repository usesthe Registry Information Model and Registry Services Specifications and some of the others though not explicitly since they are fundamental to so many other applications and specifications that we take them for granted.

I am probably going to suggest several people and groups to help organize or take the lead in helping Susan with developing an Emergency Healthcare Workshop and perhaps an Emergency Standards Workshop. The ValueListURN-Value pair concept I mentioned a couple of times yesterday is part of the EDXL Family and an educational-socialization effort is needed to stimulate local jurisidictions and EOCs to develop, publish, advertise and maintain their own facilities-related Resource Lists to use this methodology and technique, which is rather well suited for BIM, NBIMS and Sensor-OGC interests.

I learned enough with this effort, that even with four months advance work (despite the interruption of a hernia and hernia repair surgery), putting this kind of effort together needs a bit more of a team. Of course the coincidence of having the NIST workshop next week along with the OPEN SIG presentation is not likely to be duplicated. However, the annual NIST Interoperability Week in March-April is another such potential coincidence-target, as are the regular Semantic Interoperability and SOA for E-Government Conferences.

The time to start work on these efforts is soon, before the Thanksgiving-Xmas period. Coordinating this effort with the Open Ontology Repository work is something both Michelle and I have an interest in continuing.

Cheers,
Rex




At 2:30 PM -0400 10/8/08, Deborah MacPherson wrote:

Dear Rex, Michelle, and Peter,


I am honored to have participated in yesterday's workshop. I learned a lot, some activities are further along than I thought and some interface with the ways buildings are designed and actually work seem to be completely missing. For example I'm surprised the only comment on buildings by DHS was that "they have inside spaces". On the up side, the strong tie that already exists between NBIMS and OGC is sure to be a benefit in the long run.


I had a talk with Greg Ceton Technical Program Manager at CSI this morning. Basically, ISO standards (and European Standards for that matter) and the NBIMS Standard are not alike, mainly because their organizations have more staff, so there are more forms and procedures, they look for trends etc. NBIMS is much simpler than this. I'm trying to understand relationships between standards organizations, can someone please explain the relationship between ISO and OASIS if any direct relationship exists?


Its hard to say what I liked the best in the slide shows.


-Certainly the concept of Common Operating Picture is very appealing.  I'd like to see the same for museums exchanging artworks in different exhibits over time.


- The Scalable Architecture presentation was great especially SuperCuper Prototype where the XML is far in the background without the user having to fill out information that is probably already known simply by working with this type of data or question. Also interested in the comment from SourceForge that "all messages contain some elements of these major categories."


- Its very exciting to see demonstrations in Google Earth.  I truly believe OCCS Table 11 could be used to color GIS symbology a standard way by building type to help clarify the common operating picture even more. I proposed 10 standardized colors for BSP, maybe we can talk about these again. I sent a message with this same suggestion about Table 11 and colors to Charles McLean earlier today (in response to what seemed to be a sincere request for suggestions) along with another suggestion RE: the pros and cons of Fire Control Rooms.


- I also particularly like the People, Places, Things, Events and think these could be tied to building data fairly easily through special relationships between OmniClass tables.


- Once the information is exposed real time on Google Earth, is there a reason it would not be available to people in that area whether on their computers or on their cell phones so they know where to go? Is it currently possible to limit what is shown to a geographic area, in other words only people within a certain distance could receive the common picture? That way some terrorist or bank robber is not sitting miles away watching their disruption from a safe distance?


-I liked the symbols Michelle was proposing and the rapid assessment and reuse of a building (EX: a warehouse is converted into a temporary hospital then all the ambulances get re-routed there.) OPS is perfect for this.


-Also, the ability to terminate a request once it is met makes a lot of sense (EX: stop sending cots to this location, send them to this other place instead).


I'll look at the NIMS Resource Typing and Daisy.org to see if there is anything useful for architects or NBIMS there. If you have recommendations on Swarms or Smart Swarm Agents I'm curious to know more about that some day.


I started a page for collaborative editing or wishlists if a discussion could get going

<http://colab.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NBIMSinContext>http://colab.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NBIMSinContext.




Finally, I've been looking at the Umbel Ontology and based upon Peters comment to "ground any domain ontology into a foundation/upper" I'll see if I can get my classifications and standards to fit in that. That would be a great leap forward because of the convenient shape Umbel has. I'll also go back to hear their talk from the other week. If you have any advise on how to start that process please let me know.


Thanks again,


Deborah


--
*************************************************
Deborah L. MacPherson CSI CCS, AIA
Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC
**************************************************



--
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-898-0670




--
*************************************************
Deborah L. MacPherson CSI CCS, AIA
Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC

**************************************************



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Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
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Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC

**************************************************



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Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC


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Deborah L. MacPherson CSI CCS, AIA
Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC

**************************************************


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